“I think I may be worldly. What’s worldliness?”

Steve Brown:
I think I may be worldly. What’s worldliness? The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
This is Key Life, dedicated to the message that the only people who get any better are those who know that if they don’t get any better, God will still love them anyway. That teaching raises a lot of questions, so here’s author and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeTruth with answers from the Bible that will make you free.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
You know, I’ve been meaning to talk to you about this for a long time, Steve. I think you might be too.

Steve Brown:
Don’t preach to me. You’re not my mother. And I was quoting somebody else. Okay? That’s Pete Alwinson, by the way. And for many, many years, Pete and I have been in this studio answering questions and have looked forward to your questions. We take you and your questions seriously. And if you haven’t read a Pete’s book, he’s working on a new one that’s going to come out pretty soon, or at least he says he is. I haven’t seen any evidence of it. How are you doing with that book?

Pete Alwinson:
Coming, I was working on it this morning.

Steve Brown:
Oh, good for you. But anyway, if you haven’t read Like Father Like Son, get it. It’s a life changing book. And by the way, we do love to have your questions. You can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, record your question. We sometimes put that on the air. Or you can write to

Key Life Network

P.O. Box 5000

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in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
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or you can e-mail your question to [email protected] and would you think about helping us financially if you can? We’re a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And both of those organizations oversee our books to state to the world that we’re ethical. Now, we were around at ethical before they came along. But if you’ve got a check, that would be a good place to do it. And if you can, be generous. And if you can’t, we understand. Pray for this ministry. Pete, would you pray for us, and then we’ll answer some questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Let’s do it. Our Father, we do come into your presence today, and we praise you, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The only true God, the one true and holy God, righteous, faithful, Lord, you are to us. You are kind and merciful. You are full of wisdom and truth for us. And we praise you for who you are and for all that you’ve done. And Lord, even at the end of this week, we think back on all of the events and we know that you have been there in charge. We know that you are caring for us and we know that the world is in your hands. Lord Jesus, you said it, that you are, all authority and heaven on earth has been given to you. And so, we praise you, and we honor you, and Lord, we come into your presence today. And Lord, you know what we need. We don’t even know. And so, we pray that by your Spirit, you would continue to open up the word of God to us. Help us to see where you want us to grow, help us to see how grace needs to percolate down deeper into our lives to set us freer and freer and freer with more joy in Christ. Now Lord, we are going to spend some time doing questions. Lord, we have a lot of questions. We need your truth. And so, we pray for your wisdom as we ask also that you would give your wisdom to our spiritual leaders who will be leading us this week-end in church. Thank you for them. We commit them to you and ourselves to you right now. Be with our people as they listen to the Q&A. We pray in Jesus’ strong Name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, this is an e-mail. I think I’m worldly. What does the Bible teach about worldliness? How can we be in the world and not of the world?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Great question. And a lot of people aren’t really, a lot of Christians aren’t thinking this way anymore.

Steve Brown:
No, you really don’t. And in the past, often those being worldly had to do with reading the wrong books and going to the wrong movies and wearing makeup and I think that missed the point of this whole thing.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. It really set a sort of a subculture among Christians that here were the truly spiritual ones and here were the ones that weren’t. And that’s what fomented a lot of what we might legalism in the modern era. But you know, and of course, so in the Bible, when we look up the word world in the concordance. It can speak to, the world can speak to the, the every, the physical world, but this is speaking of the culture that’s allied against God.

Steve Brown:
Oh, yeah. And it has to do with a worldview, and it has effects in our actions, but those actions are not the list of rules that everybody gives. It has to do with what you think, and who you are, and how you live when you recognize the king is the king, and that he’s the god over everything. That’s a metanarrative, as sociologists call it. And if you have a stable metanarrative, you’re free. If you don’t, everything is up for risk. And your life can fall apart.

Pete Alwinson:
So, we can be worldly if we just go along with what the world does.

Steve Brown:
That’s right.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s interesting. We just finished teaching through Revelation at Forge. And the whole idea of Babylon is the same idea.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, exactly.

Pete Alwinson:
Babylon is the whore who sold herself out to Satan, and it’s the culture, it’s the world system allied against God.

Steve Brown:
And you know, in our time, we’re living in some perilous times. And the lies are incredible. It makes me think, these people are crazy. You know, they’re saying what is right, they’re calling it evil and wrong, and what is wrong and evil, they’re saying it’s good and positive, and that’s because they’re worldly.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s right.

Steve Brown:
They’re a Babylon.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. They’re a Babylon. And so, the characters in Revelation, right, we’ve got the dragon, who’s Satan, the beasts that are the state. And the state and Babylon go hand in hand, the beasts and Babylon, hand in hand.

Steve Brown:
So, let Scripture inform what you think about the world. Live that way, being aware of those truths. And you will not be worldly.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s our goal.

Steve Brown:
That works. This is an e-mail, too. Does God have a wife? Yes, he does, and her name’s Gertrude.

Pete Alwinson:
Ha! Ha! Ha! Heresy, I know, right?

Steve Brown:
Well, you said, you were talking about Baal.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Sometimes those two in the Old Testament.

Steve Brown:
They had Ashera.

Pete Alwinson:
So, Ashera and Baal were often, and she was the female consort to Baal. But you know, so maybe they got that idea from that. But no, God does not have, well, Christ has a bride, his church.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. It’s us.

Pete Alwinson:
Okay.

Steve Brown:
The church that works.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
But I don’t think that’s what this person is talking about.

Pete Alwinson:
I don’t think so either.

Steve Brown:
And the answer to that question is, of course, not. This is an interesting question. Can a person who trusts Christ as their Savior be saved if they believe other people besides Christians will be in heaven?

Pete Alwinson:
Now, that’s interesting.

Steve Brown:
Well, before we go into that, yes, of course. You’re not saved by what the things you believe, right or wrong. You’re not saved by your goodness, right or wrong. You’re saved by the blood of Christ, justification by faith alone. And that’s it.

Pete Alwinson:
In Him, in Christ. That’s right. Even if they differ with us theologically.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. If they’re universalists, they’re wrong, but that doesn’t affect their being saved. I, you know, I got everybody except Presbyterians are wrong.

Pete Alwinson:
And the right kind of Presbyterian.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, the right kind of, a certain kind of Presbyterian.

Pete Alwinson:
There it is, you know.

Steve Brown:
So, you know, it’s very, I’d jump at that quickly. Because I so often fell for that. I, there’s some weird Christians. And there are, you wouldn’t believe some things.

Pete Alwinson:
And there’s some who think we’re weird too.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that’s why when you cut it down, the gospel is Christ alone. And if you add anything to it, goodness, or rightness, or proper theology. That’s not, I have this, I’ve told you, I have this dream, we get to heaven, and God says I have bad news and good news for you. After we’re all gathered, and some Presbyterian in the back goes, that’s the way we are. Shouts out, tell us the bad news first. God says the bad news is you were all wrong and the good news is I’ve talked to my Son about you and he says you’re okay, so welcome home.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh man, well and so, but there are no other people in heaven other than Christians, those who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
So, even if you believe that there are, you can be redeemed as long as your faith is in Jesus.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, that’s true. And also because of the Ordo Salutis, theoretically he saves whoever he wants to, and they may not even know it. Okay. All right. This is an e-mail. Does the devil have the power to hurt us?

Pete Alwinson:
Sure. Even to kill us, if God so allows it.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, that’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
But we don’t have to be afraid of that. And it’s important.

Steve Brown:
Well, Jesus was very clear on that. He was clear about the laws. Scripture is clear, like the battle is over. Somebody has said, the dragon has been slain, but his tail still swishes.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh yeah, I love that.

Steve Brown:
And Jesus told Peter, you be careful.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And he said, Satan has desired to have you, but I’ve prayed for you. So yeah, those kinds of things happen. I’ve been writing recently, a friend of mine, whose son’s fiancee thinks she’s demon possessed. And they’re all Christians, and I’ve just said you be careful Don’t give Satan more power than he has, but don’t pretend he’s not existent, in existence to you.

Pete Alwinson:
That is a very important line to walk, and Christians don’t often do it, that we tend to either be overly afraid of him or overly dismissive.

Steve Brown:
That’s true, and that’s what C.S. Lewis said in Screwtape Letters. Those are the two fallacies that we get into, yeah. What do you think of the practice of hypnotism, for example, in quitting smoking?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, interesting. I haven’t done any research on that recently. But hypnotism can be helpful from what I understand. But I’m, I’m not wild about anybody messing with my mind.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, me too. I, maybe we’ll address that in a future broadcast.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright, alright.

Steve Brown:
Because that’s a good question and a good one to pursue.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
But we don’t have time to do that. We don’t even have time to sing a hymn. So, we’ve got to go, but before we go, I must say, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.