Power, wonder-working power.

Steve Brown:
Power, wonder-working power. Let’s talk about it, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
That was Steve Brown. He’s an author, seminary professor and our teacher on Key Life, a program all about God’s radical grace. We are committed to bringing you Bible teaching that’s honest, straight-forward, and street-smart. Keep listening to hear truth that’ll make you free.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Jerry.

Jerry Parries: Hey Steve.

Steve Brown:
If you guys are just joining us, Jerry Parries is my, I can’t tell you how much I love this man. When I was really, really down, he stepped in and became my pastor, and I could, I’m not going to tell you the incident, that’s none of your business, but I love this man and he’s one of the voices of Key Life. And we’re alike in a lot of ways and we’re not alike in some ways. Now, if you were listening yesterday, you know that we’re discussing the Holy Spirit, given that this Sunday is Pentecost Sunday and what the Holy Spirit does in the life of a believer. One of the interesting things that make us different is that Jerry’s Pentecostal, and I’m not Pentecostal, And in the book I wrote, Follow the Wind on the Holy Spirit, I offended both sides.

Jerry Parries: Meaning, I’m saved and he’s not.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, true. And I, but I, but I did. I said, those of you who say those gifts have stopped, you’re wrong. Those of you who say there’s a second working of grace and you’re better than everybody else, you’re wrong too. So, one of the things I asked Jerry, and I’ve never heard him speak in tongues. I’ve never, we’ve never talked about this particular subject, but we, before we went, before we went on the air, I said to Jerry, are you Pentecostal? And what did you say?

Jerry Parries: Absolutely. Through and through.

Steve Brown:
You said you were born Pentecostal.

Jerry Parries: Born Pentecostal, yes indeed. Grew up, grew up Pentecostal, speaking in tongues, baptized in Jesus day.

Steve Brown:
Just as an aside, I have a daughter, or we have a daughter who’s our youngest of two daughters, who was born very, very ill. And the doctor said, if you know how to pray, and I didn’t, you need to pray. She had a leg that was modeling, it wasn’t getting any nourishment, the blood count was all messed up. They were going to give her the complete blood transfusion. And in those days people died from that sort of thing. And I didn’t, I was a liberal wacko this side of crazy, and I, in terms of my theology and I didn’t know how to pray, but I had met some Pentecostals.

Jerry Parries: Wow.

Steve Brown:
They were Anglicans, but Pentecostals just two weeks before. And I went to their meeting and they said, we hear you have a new little girl, congratulations. And I started crying and they said, what are you crying about? And I told them what the doctor had said. Those people joined hands, prayed for my little baby daughter, and the next morning my wife called from the hospital, didn’t even say good morning. She said, honey, did anybody pray last night?

Jerry Parries: Wow.

Steve Brown:
And I said, yes, they did. And she said, the doctor came in early this morning and says, this is a miracle.

Jerry Parries: Wow.

Steve Brown:
The modeling leg is normal and I’m no longer worried about the blood count. Now, Jerry, that was a crazy day for me. That’ll play havoc with the mind of a liberal theological guy, this side of wacko. I didn’t believe anything.

Jerry Parries: Wow.

Steve Brown:
And all of a sudden God had intervened and intervened in a very specific way in my life.

Jerry Parries: Amen.

Steve Brown:
So, bottom line is, I didn’t know you were Pentecostal. Now, I know you’re a Pentecostal, but you need to know I don’t make fun of Pentecostals and charismatics in thunderstorms.

Jerry Parries: Amen.

Steve Brown:
Alright, let’s talk about something we, you and I are the same.

Jerry Parries: Yes.

Steve Brown:
We believe in God’s Spirit, we believe that God hasn’t gone on vacation, that he still operates in the life of the believer. Jesus’ promises are still relevant. He sent his Holy Spirit as a comforter, as a teacher, as the one who empowers. Talk to me about that.

Jerry Parries: Absolutely. Well, let me give you a little of my experience growing up as, in a Pentecostal church. One of the great things about growing up in a Pentecostal church is that we emphasize faith and believing in miracles and believing in Jesus. And the power of the Holy Ghost. That was just hammered to us that God can still do it, and if he did it for them, he would do it for you. And so, we were able to take that faith and really put it up against any challenge. And so, that was the great thing about growing up Pentecostal, we really relied on the Holy Spirit. We really expected the Holy Spirit to move. And here’s what I want to tell everybody that’s listening to me. When you put your faith in God and you stand on God’s word for there, There is something special and unique that God meets people who believe God beyond all measure. One of the things that I would say that we, that was probably misguided is that we kind of felt that if nobody, if you didn’t speak in tongues, then you were not saved. And we preach more about the event. And the event of Pentecost was that the Holy Spirit introduced itself into the world through tongues, but it was not just any language. People were, unknown language, people were speaking the language of every believer from every nation.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. In Acts 2, that’s what was happening.

Jerry Parries: That is correct.

Steve Brown:
I mean, they heard the gospel in their own language.

Jerry Parries: In their own language. And so, but we took it as that when they were speaking in tongues, that that was a sign that you have the Holy Ghost. And speaking in tongues is not a sign that you have the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues was what God used to bring the gospel to those in different languages. The Holy Spirit comes up on us when we believe and because you’re Presbyterian, you have the Holy Ghost too.

Steve Brown:
You know, and I don’t disagree with a single word that you just spoke. I agree with that, and I think every believer does. I think one of the problems that has happened in the church is that Pentecostals and charismatics and mainline Christians, Presbyterians, and the rest of the bunch, that we don’t sit down and talk about the Jesus to whom all of us believe. And let me tell you something, I think Presbyterians, and we’re often called the chosen frozen. Presbyterians need your fire.

Jerry Parries: Yeah.

Steve Brown:
And you guys need our teaching, you know, we’re kind of heady and we do doctrine and theology well, but Jesus sometimes leaves the building. And so we need each other.

Jerry Parries: Yes. Yes.

Steve Brown:
And I think that’s happening in our time.

Jerry Parries: I think the church is, I agree with you, I think that we’re coming more from denominational separation, to now coming together to really, really begin to trust in God and begin to see the power of God in our lives because we’re, Jesus says, if they’re not against me, then they’re for me. And so, we all should come together and you guys can use a little bit when the preacher is preaching somebody, Yes, Amen, Go Preach, Pastor, Preach. You know, that’s good sometime.

Steve Brown:
Oh, it’s so good. I preached in your church and I sound like Charles Spurgeon when I preach in your church cause I’ve got a whole congregation that are with me and let me know. Like, say it brother.

Jerry Parries: Yes.

Steve Brown:
Speak it.

Jerry Parries: Yes.

Steve Brown:
Amen. And you know, that’s like wind under the wings. Speaking of which. that’s the Holy Spirit, isn’t it?

Jerry Parries: Absolutely. And the Holy Spirit manifests itself in so many different ways, and when we only allow it to manifest in tongues, we missed a whole slew of ways that God is speaking. God speaks through healing. God speaks through encouragement. God, the power of God speaks by lifting your heaviness and your burdens and giving you peace. The Holy Spirit can do a wonderful amount of wonderful things for your life, but don’t put him in a box from your experience. Give him the room to move in your life in really special ways.

Steve Brown:
Jesus said the Holy Spirit was like the wind. And you know, I think we, especially on my side of the street sometimes want to box it in and make a doctrine out of it. And forget that the Holy Spirit does as he pleases, and he does it quite well.

Jerry Parries: Yes.

Steve Brown:
And he does it in the life of the believers. And we’re going to be talking about that the rest of the week. So, you just don’t want to miss it. But right now, you have seen something that you don’t often see in the church. Two brothers, one charismatic Pentecostal, one who is not, holding hands, praying together and talking about Jesus, and we need a lot more of that. The Bible teaches that everybody who belongs to Jesus belongs to everybody who belongs to Jesus. And frankly, we’re living in a culture where they don’t like us very much, and we can’t afford not to stand with one another in love. Okay? You think about that. Amen.

Matthew Porter:
Thank you Steve Brown and Jerry Parries. All this week, Steve and Jerry are teaching us about the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit and his work following the resurrection. So many great insights and we still have two more days to enjoy this conversation, so be sure to join us again tomorrow. Well, you might have heard someone say something along the lines of, we live in the already, but not yet. Basically, meaning that we are already in God’s kingdom, but we don’t yet see it in all of its glory. Instead, we often see darkness, hatred, division, immorality, and despair. So, how do we deal with this? Well, Steve spoke about that and a sermon called We Will Be Restored. In that message, he offers three things we can do based on passages from I John. Get your copy of that sermon on CD for free right now by calling us at 1-800-KEY-LIFE that’s 1-800-539-5433. You can also e-mail [email protected] to ask for that CD. Or to mail your request go to keylife.org/contact to find our mailing addresses. Just ask for your free copy of the CD called We Will Be Restored. And I know you’re busy, but one last thing, would you partner in the work of Key Life through your giving? It’s easy to do. You can charge a gift on your credit card or include a gift in your envelope. Or you can now gift safely and securely through text. Just pick up your phone and text Key Life to 28950 that’s Key Life, one word, two words. It doesn’t matter. Text that to 28950. Key Life is a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And we are a listener supported production of Key Life Network.