Sometimes the thrill is gone.

Steve Brown:
Sometimes the thrill is gone. Let’s talk about it, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Key Life exists to communicate that the deepest message of Jesus and the Bible is the radical grace of God to sinners and sufferers because life’s hard for everyone, grace is for all of us. Our host is seminary professor and author, Steve Brown.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. And hello Pete Alwinson, it feels like Friday.

Pete Alwinson:
I know, but it’s Monday.

Steve Brown:
I know. And it’s the week before Christmas. And Pete and I got to talking and we decided that what we’re going to do this week is we’re going to try and restore the thrill. You know, you need to pray for Pete and for me, and also for our producer Jeremy cause we do a lot of religious stuff. And religious stuff can bore you after a while if there’s not something else besides the religious stuff. This past week, or I should say recently cause these recordings are done a little bit ahead or a little bit behind, but we interviewed a great guy. His name is Trevin Wax, and he wrote a book called The Thrill of Orthodoxy. You don’t always hear that. You think, well, orthodoxy is important, but it’s certainly not thrilling, it’s boring. And I’ve often said that if I go through a flood, I’m going to put Calvin’s Institutes on the floor and I’m going to stand on it and I’ll stay dry, but anyway, the book was called The Thrill of Orthodoxy: Rediscovering the Adventure of the Christian Faith. And in that book, he makes that point that sometimes, especially if you’ve been walking with Jesus for a long time, and you and I have,. And we’re still here, we’re not going anywhere, but sometimes it’s kind of like another one. You know, I preach another sermon. I did another book, I did another blog, I did another broadcast, and I smiled and I was nice and I was religious all the time. And inside you’re saying I’d rather be at the dentist, that’s a danger. And you need to pray for us cause we’re the most religious friends you’ve got. And that happens, but something supernatural happens too. And that is particularly true about Christmas. You know, we’ve been through a lot of Christmases together, Pete. We have said the story a thousand times and one of the hard things you and I both discovered when we were pastors is that Christmas was hard, not because it wasn’t wonderful, but because it had all been said. And it had not only all been said, it had been said over and over and over and over again. So, when you prepare Christmas sermons, you’re thinking, how can I say this, so it will affect me and the people in my congregation and they can rejoice and dance and see the thrill of these truths. But it’s hard sometimes.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. And so, what you’re saying is it really is a work of the Spirit of God,

Steve Brown:
It really is.

Pete Alwinson:
to make the thrill of orthodoxy and the wonder of the reality of the Incarnation. And all of Scripture truth come alive on a regular basis.

Steve Brown:
You know, if you’ve been walking with Christ for a long time, most of what we believe is a, but of course, kind of reaction. And we forget sometimes how incredible these truths are, and unbelievable they are. I mean, we’re saying there really is a God. And that he created everything there is, and that’s big enough. A lot of pagans can’t accept that, they’re going, what are you, a fruit cake or something? And then when you go on, it gets even worse. You say that God entered time and space, really blew his nose the way we do, was tired the way we, afraid the way we were, lonely the way we are and died the way we must. And an believer who hasn’t been called by God will say, look, what have you been smoking? There’s something wrong with you. And then if you say there’s more, he’s going to come back. And that’s why Christmas, it’s not just the first Advent, it’s the second Advent to which we look forward. And you say, not only that, he’s going to come back. And you look at the pagan really seriously, and he’s going to get you. And they’re going to say, come on, you’re kidding me, right? And we forget how unbelievable this is. And if it’s true, how exciting and wonderful it is.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s so good. And hopefully this week we can help set some of our friends up for those Christmas parties that they have to go to, the work Christmas parties where they can go and maybe blow a few minds. And, you know, Steve, one thought here is that in a sense, culturally, we may have hit a tipping point where we are the true minority in America now. Those that really believe the Christmas story and the Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John accounts. And so, in a sense, if all of us are open, the Holy Spirit can make this come alive to us again and maybe get us ready to throw it out there. What does Christmas mean to you? Maybe asking that proactively, when we go to those parties.

Steve Brown:
You know, one of the saddest things about Christmas to me, given what you and I both do, is I have this picture in my mind of somebody, maybe a couple, in their home, taking down Christmas decorations, putting them in the box for another year before they bring them out, months in the future, and stopping and saying, you know, there was something there and I don’t know what it is because what we’ve ended up culturally is that we’re having a holiday with nothing to celebrate. I mean, we really don’t, if you don’t believe this, there’s no reason for Christmas.

Pete Alwinson:
Now, our unbelieving friends and neighbors, don’t get me wrong, they’re looking for an opportunity to celebrate anytime they can.

Steve Brown:
That’s true, you know, Rusty Anderson, you knew him, didn’t you?

Pete Alwinson:
I did. Yeah, what a guy.

Steve Brown:
He said to me one time, I’d like to eliminate Christmas. I said, are you crazy? He said, no, let’s take Jesus out of Christmas and then we’ll have the party. And then those of us who belong to him, we can celebrate Christmas during the summer and pagans won’t steal that from us and it’s the point that you and I are making as we’re talking about this now.

Pete Alwinson:
Culture always tries, secular culture always tries to take away truth, right? They always do. You’re right. And I think Rusty had a point, huh?

Steve Brown:
Oh, he really did. And I think Wax in that book I referred to earlier, makes that point. He said, we’re very spiritual. He said, but it’s your own God, you take a little bit from here and a little bit from there and a little bit from somewhere else, and you certainly say, well, I’m not religious, but I’m spiritual. And I don’t go to institutions like the church. And he said, that sounds good, but it goes dead on you. And then he says that the orthodox faith, what is revealed to us will last until you die and throughout all of eternity.

Pete Alwinson:
Absolutely, because it’s truth, because it really is the truth.

Steve Brown:
Okay. Now, let me tell you what we’re going to do. Pete and I, because we need this as much as you do, are going to dig into the Scriptures. We’re going to look at the references in Matthew to the original beginning, the Christmas story. Then we’re going to look at what Luke has to say about that. Mark’s not as vociferous as Matthew and Luke, so we may not go to Mark. We’ll do Matthew and Luke, and then if we have time, we’ll go to John, which is the incredible, unbelievable statement of the Word becoming flesh. And then we’ll go to Philippians if we have time where God empties himself, Jesus empties himself and becomes a servant. And, we might check up some other Scriptures as we go along. But Pete and I have been friends for a very long time, and so it’s easy for us to sit down. In fact, what we’re doing, is simply turning on the microphones. We’ve spent a lot of time just talking about things like this, and we thought it would be nice to have you listen in on our conversation and maybe contribute your own thoughts to others as you share this story with them. But bottom line is this, this really happened.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
It’s not a story.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. No, it’s the real deal. As I was getting ready to preach for Easter. I had an opportunity to do what you’ve done down here in Orlando. And I just had this stunning, existential moment that said Easter proves it’s all true.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. It’s all true.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s all true.

Steve Brown:
Every bit of it.

Pete Alwinson:
And that means, you know, flood back from Easter to Matthew 1, Luke 1, John 1. It’s all true.

Steve Brown:
And you know, sometimes we forget, you know, there’s so many things that are mythological that are built, and I’m not against that. You know, Christmas trees and angels hanging from the limbs of the Christmas trees and all the traditions and the parties.

Pete Alwinson:
You have a Santa hat, don’t you, that you like to wear?

Steve Brown:
No, no, I do not.

Pete Alwinson:
I mean, I saw it through the window there.

Steve Brown:
The staff around here thinks that is funny to give me a Santa hat.

Pete Alwinson:
You love Santa and Christmas, right?

Steve Brown:
No, I don’t. Bah humbug, but on Christmas Eve, I remember it really happened. You think about that. Amen.

Matthew Porter:
Sometimes the thrill of Christmas is gone, but we can get it back. Thank you Steve and Pete. As Steve mentioned, we’re going to have this conversation between Steve and Pete about Christmas all week. So cool. So want to make sure you join us again tomorrow. So, what is God like? Well, God has answered that question, and Christmas is part of that answer. Steve gave a sermon called Grace: The Heart of the Incarnation and it speaks to this subject. What is God like? What does it mean to live by God’s grace? And what are the practical implications when you do? All of this is based on the powerful first chapter of John, we put that classic sermon on a CD and just, you know, because we like you, we’d love to mail it to you, for free. Claim your copy right now by calling us at 1-800-KEY-LIFE. That’s 1-800-539-5433. You can also e-mail [email protected] to ask for that CD. If you’d like to mail your request, go to key life.org/contact to find our U.S. And Canadian mailing addresses. Again, just ask for your free copy of the CD called Grace: The Heart of the Incarnation. And finally, would you partner in the work of Key Life through your giving? You can charge a gift on your credit card or include a gift in your envelope. Or just pick up your phone and text Key Life to 28950. That’s Key Life, one word, two words. It doesn’t matter. Just text that to 28950 then follow the instructions. Key Life is a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And as always, we are a listener supported production of Key Life Network.