“What about Judas?”

Steve Brown:
Hey, what about Judas? The answer to that and other questions, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
This is Key Life dedicated to the message that the only people who get any better are those who know that if they don’t get any better, God will still love them, anyway. That teaching raises a lot of questions, so here’s author and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com with answers to the Bible that’ll make you free.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hey Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey, happy Friday.

Steve Brown:
Happy Friday to you too.

Pete Alwinson:
You preaching any place this week-end?

Steve Brown:
Well, I have recently, I don’t think since we’re not sure when this is going to be broadcast.

Pete Alwinson:
True. That’s true.

Steve Brown:
You just can’t be sure. I could say yes and then not go and be called a liar. Or I could say no and go. And have the same results. So, you’ve gotta be careful when you’re recording stuff ahead of time.

Pete Alwinson:
It is true.

Steve Brown:
That’s Pete Alwinson. And Forge is one of the finest and most profound men’s ministries in the country. And you ought to check it out by going to ForgeTruth.com. And I asked you the same thing. You travel a lot. Are you preaching?

Pete Alwinson:
I’m not. Really. We’re mostly here in Orlando, which is great.

Steve Brown:
The pandemic, I was talking to some musicians in Nashville. And it, it really, they’re not back yet. It almost killed them, their profession.

Pete Alwinson:
For those guys. I can imagine.

Steve Brown:
And for preachers who travel a lot and you and I did that before the pandemic, it’s beginning to come back a little bit, but not like it was then. And I’m glad. I don’t like to travel. I don’t like to go to the drug store. I’m happy with this. By the way, we love to get your questions. And we love to sit at this table and discuss your questions. You can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, with any question, record your voice. And sometimes we put you on the air. Or you can send your question to

Key Life Network
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If you live in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
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Or you can send your question to [email protected]. And if you can help us financially, we would appreciate it. If you don’t, I don’t want to be manipulative, but you’ll get the hives. No, you won’t. We understand that a lot of you just can’t, but if you can help us, I promise we’ll be as faithful with your gift as you were in giving it. You can charge it on your credit card. Include it in your envelope. We are members of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada, organizations that oversee our monetary practices. So, you can give with full knowledge that it will be used in proper ways. Pete, why don’t you lead us in prayer. It’s the microphone. It’s not me. Lead us in prayer and we’ll get into some of these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
You got it. Our Father, we do come to you on this Friday and are grateful that Key Life exists. I thank you for this ministry. I thank you for Steve and all those incredible people behind the scenes that do wonderful things to reach your gospel into their lives. We thank you Lord God that you’re our Creator, you’re our Provider, you’re our Sustainer, you’re also our Savior, Lord Jesus. God come in human flesh to redeem us from our own sins. And Lord, we honor you, we praise you, we lift up your name, we thank you for the fact of our release. That we’re no longer slaves to sin, but we’ve been set free as daughters and sons of the most high God. And so, we exalt in who we are now in Christ, and we ask that you’d continue your great work in us. And even as we think about this week-end in worship as those we go to will preach to us and lead us in worship and help us understand what you have done Jesus more and more. We pray that our hearts would be attuned to what you are doing. Spirit of the living God fall fresh on us this week-end. Use our leaders to bring us to that next step. And may we influence our friends and brothers and sisters just by being in church. So, we commit this time, this week-end in worship to you as well as Q&A. As we pray in Jesus’ strong name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, let’s first go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
When Judas died, he said that he went to his other place. Can you explain what that other place is?

Steve Brown:
That’s a good question. We kept looking throughout Scripture trying to find out what he was talking about. And we found it and it wasn’t in the gospels.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. It was in the book of Acts.

Steve Brown:
How about that? Well, what does it say there? And then explain it to us.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, in talking about Judas, it says.

And they prayed and said, Lord, who knows the hearts of all men show which one of these two thou has chosen to replace Judas.

And then it says.

To occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.

So, that’s really kind of a statement about how Judas abandoned the apostalic role or the discipleship role and decided to follow Satan instead. To go to his own place.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. And then it probably is not a statement about a winter hell.

Pete Alwinson:
Probably not.

Steve Brown:
But that’s an issue. So, let’s talk about that.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Well, he’s called in John, what is it? I looked it up, John 17:12, he’s called the son of perdition.

Steve Brown:
So, we doubt whether you’re going to find him singing hymns in heaven.

Pete Alwinson:
He’s not going to be there. He’s not going to be there.

Steve Brown:
You know what’s an interesting thing to think about, is the difference between Peter and Judas. You know, Peter didn’t do any better. You know, we keep saying, you know, Judas sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver. Peter, protected his soul for less than that. And you begin to look, they both did really bad.

Pete Alwinson:
They boath betrayed Jesus.

Steve Brown:
They really did. And, I mean, we want to make Peter into a good guy and Judas into a bad guy, but Peter was as bad as Judas. What’s the difference?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. The difference that he was deeply saddened and repentant. Now, Judas was too cause he hung himself.

Steve Brown:
That’s right.

Pete Alwinson:
But I think it was more that he got caught and that it didn’t work out the way he wanted it to. I think he was trying to manipulate Jesus. Whereas Peter saw that his his heart was for Jesus, was for God.

Steve Brown:
You know, there was, there were, and when you say to manipulate Jesus, there are those who say that he was a zealot and Jesus was doing this lamb of God stuff. And that’s not what he expected. He wanted a sword and a white horse. And Jesus wouldn’t do that, so he figured, if I betray him, he’ll have to fight.

Pete Alwinson:
I’ll force his hand.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. Right. And, there are those who have suggested in the early church, there was a cult built around the person of Judas. They didn’t last, because the Scriptures are clear that Judas was not saved.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And a son of perdition and he was lost and he hung himself.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. It’s tragic to be that close.

Steve Brown:
I know.

Pete Alwinson:
You know, but then that John says that in John chapter one, that those who were his own and saw him, but did not receive him as their own as the Messiah. So, that is a tragic case for many many people.

Steve Brown:
It really is. And a good question. How does one determine whether one is called to be a pastor?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. That’s an interesting question. How did that happen for you? How’d you get into this?

Steve Brown:
And there’s an old story about a young man who went to the examination committee and he couldn’t talk and he didn’t know much about the Bible and he didn’t know much about God and they weren’t sure that he was called. So they said, how do you know you’re called? He said, so I looked up in the sky and there was a sign in the clouds that said GP. And I knew it meant go preach. And the head of the committee said, no it didn’t it meant go plow. You don’t get it from the sky. Do you?

Pete Alwinson:
No you don’t. Really, I think the call to the ministry, we talk about the internal and the external call. I think as we come to faith in Christ and it’s real, and we start serving, if gifts that tend to bubble to the surface through you, are gifts of leadership and preaching and evangelism, it may well be that you are called to lead the local church. And then that growing desire in your heart has to be there. But also the affirmation of God’s people, that you really have the gifts for leadership and preaching and you ought to be in a position of spiritual leadership.

Steve Brown:
So, if you’re not a part of a Bible-believing fellowship of Christians in the church, it’d be hard to get the call or to know that you got it.

Pete Alwinson:
Absolutely.

Steve Brown:
Because it’s a community family thing.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, that’s a great point. We don’t just ordain ourselves, you know, it’s others that lay hands on, Paul and others laid hands on Timothy. The Presbytery.

Steve Brown:
They really did. What’s an internal call.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. I think that internal call is that sense that, you know, like Paul had, woe unto me if I don’t preach. I have got to give myself full time to the advancement of the kingdom. And so, there’s that growing Spirit, Holy Spirit induced sense of call.

Steve Brown:
Oh man. That was strong in me. I hate it. I didn’t like being a pastor, as you know. I used to challenge the elders to fire me and let me go. And they wouldn’t do it. I think that’s because they were angry at me. But, I tell you, I never once doubted in all those years that I was exactly where I was supposed to do, doing exactly what I’d been called to do. That internal call is very strong.

Pete Alwinson:
And it’s really crucial that we not only have, that we have both that internal and external call because life is difficult. Ministry is hard. And Satan is our enemy. So, you need to know that when the days are not easy.

Steve Brown:
Have you said to potential guys who are thinking about going into the ministry, try to get out of it, if you can run as fast as you can. And if you can’t get away from it, you’re probably… That’s not bad advice.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s not. I haven’t said it quite that way, I said, do something else if he can, but very similar. It’s very true. Cause it is a calling and a sacrifice.

Steve Brown:
Alright. Let me give you a one question that we can answer in the short time we have left. Do miracles still exist in the today? It’s an e-mail.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. I mean, you know, a miracle is a suspension of the natural laws of creation and God can do whatever he wants to do. Miracles do happen.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, I agree. In the Scripture miracles have by and large a purpose though, don’t they?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. And I think that’s so important because there’s so much false teaching about that, that’s usually to authenticate the spokesman of God. And to show the working of God in a particular place in time.

Steve Brown:
And we’re not limiting God, he can do whatever he wants, but that is generally one of the major reasons for miracles. Well, we settled that. I guess it’s for us to leave. You going to do this next week?

Pete Alwinson:
If you’re here Steve, I’ll be here.

Steve Brown:
Guys, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.