“What about the Shroud of Turin?”

Steve Brown:
What about or Shroud of Turin? The answer to that and another questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Welcome to Key Life. Our host and teacher is Steve Brown. He’s no guru, but he does have honest answers to honest questions about the Bible. God’s grace changes everything, how we love, work, live, lead, marry, parent, evangelize, purchase and worship. So, here’s Steve and Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com with street-smart Bible teaching for real life.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey man. How you doing?

Steve Brown:
I’m doing really good.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright. Alright.

Steve Brown:
And the people who are listening don’t know this, but you and I just finished a board meeting.

Pete Alwinson:
And you know, we love board meetings. We love meetings.

Steve Brown:
No. Yeah. We’re being facetious. If I get to heaven and they call a meeting, I’m in the other place, I love the people. They’re just great people. It was a Canadian board meeting and we had a great time, but I just don’t like meetings. You know, I’m old enough where I can say what I think. I don’t like meetings, at all.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, there it is. I mean, and that’s why George was leading the meeting.

Steve Brown:
That’ true. That’s Pete Alwinson. If you haven’t visited ForgeTruth.com you ought to visit it. You’ll rise up and call me blessed, for telling you about it. And someday, and we’re not sure there’s going to be an audio version of Pete’s book, like Father Like Son. You haven’t heard anything more?

Pete Alwinson:
Close. They say it’s out, but we haven’t been been given the contact info yet.

Steve Brown:
We’ll give you some information when it’s out. It’s a great book, Like Father Like Son. And as most of you know, Pete comes in on Fridays and we spend the entire broadcast answering some of your questions. And we love your questions. You can ask a question, anytime. You call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, mash the button and record your question. And sometimes we put your voice on the air or you can send your questions to

Key Life Network

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If you’re in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
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Or you can e-mail your question to [email protected] and those are all touch points, where should the Spirit move you could help us financially. If you can, please do. And I promise, we’ll be faithful with your gift and you’ll be a part of reaching a whole lot of people with the message of God’s grace and mercy and love. And, if you can’t, we understand, do pray for us. And if you can, you can charge it on your credit card or include it in your envelope and we’ll be so thankful. Hey Pete, lead us in prayer, we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright. Let’s do it. Our Father, we do come to you, at the end of this week. And so grateful that we can say that we belong to you. Lord, some of us are tired. Some of us are encouraged. Some of us have questions. Lord, you know us and you know what we’re feeling and right now at this moment, but thank you that we can remember that you are powerful and loving and kind and merciful. That your plan is bigger than we could ever imagine. And that we can worship you, even in the midst of those questions or those joyous things that are happening, we come to you. Lord, we ask that you continue to meet our needs and teach us and by your Spirit, unleash us, Lord, make us alive in a world that seems to have lost its mind at times. And so, we pray Holy Spirit, that you would fill us. We pray for our pastors and priests and teachers and leaders and worship directors and all those that will sacrifice and serve to make church happen this week-end. And we just pray, you would fill them with your Spirit and use them in our lives that we might be, ignited a fresh by your grace. We commit this time of Q&A to you, as we pray these things in Jesus name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, let’s first go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
Steve Brown made a comment concerning the Shroud of Turin and the evidence that it provides for the resurrection of the Lord, Jesus. I have a book in my possession. I’m wondering if he’s heard of it, what he thinks about it, written by Ian Wilson, the title of which is The Blood and the Shroud, the passionate controversy still inflaming the world’s most famous carbon dating test.

Steve Brown:
And no, I’m not familiar, but I kinda know what that would be about. You know, a number of years ago, Pete, I did a book. I don’t even remember which one. And I devoted a couple of pages to talking, it was in passing to the Shroud of Turin. And I used it in a positive way. And then subsequent to that, a few years later, two, three years later, there was a major story that they had carbon dated the Shroud. And it was a fake. And, you know, I’m not into promoting fakes. So, when they did a reprint of the book, I had them take that part out. And then a couple of years later, I probably, what this man is referring to in that book, they found out that carbon dating was improper, that there had been a fire, a repair on the shroud and they had carbon-dated the repair and not the Shroud itself. And that makes me so angry, I could spit. Pagans are always doing that. And so I, it’s a very fascinating thing to study.

Pete Alwinson:
It really is. It’s absolutely fascinating. And when they find some of the accidental aspects to it, like some of the pollen or pieces

Steve Brown:
of Middle East

Pete Alwinson:
from the Middle East, you know, and there it is in Italy. There are many, many aspects to it. Nobody can really explain how that image was actually imprinted on that cloth.

Steve Brown:
And you only see it when you see the negative side of it. It’s an amazing, and there are 20 different things like that about the Shroud. And it could very well be the Shroud of Jesus that, and there are a lot of reasons to think so, but that’s not where we put our faith. Is it?

Pete Alwinson:
No. Right. That’s how the Holy Spirit enables us to understand the reality of the empty tomb, on the basis of Scripture and the apostolic witness.

Steve Brown:
And that’s very clear and very convincing. I did not, when I first thought it was a fake leave the Christian faith and become a Buddhist, I didn’t have my faith in the Shroud of Turin. But sometimes God, that’s a God wink. And he says, I just want to remind you, this really happened. I want to remind you that a dead man got up and walked and that you can too. Listen, this is an e-mail. It seemed to me, I heard you say that the great reformer Martin Luther said that you can go and sin knowingly and then go and repent. You sounded as though Luther said, that we can sin that grace may abound, but Paul warned early Christians against this kind of attitude about the gift of grace. Can you explain? Well, as a matter of fact, I can. The only reason Paul had to bring up that issue, am I saying that you should sin more so that grace would abound, is because he said something that sounded like that. If he had not said something that sounded like that, he would have never had to even refer to it. So, the gospel sounds that way. It sounds like no matter where you’ve been, what you’ve done, there’s forgiveness, the blood of Christ covers it past, present, and future. Now, if you take that and you run with it in the wrong way. And Luther did not, by the way, Luther did say sin boldly, love God and sin boldly, but he was talking about, depending on the grace and the Spirit of Christ boldly, which isn’t going to lead you to sin, you have to work at it. So, no, Luther didn’t mean that. And I didn’t mean that, but I’m glad you thought I did because it meant I was close to the truth.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. Right.

Steve Brown:
If you don’t sound anti, if you don’t sound antinomian, you’re probably not preaching the gospel.

Pete Alwinson:
And here’s a fact, except for you and me. Every Christian I know of, every Christian I know of has sinned knowingly and intentionally, knowing that they’d be forgiven.

Steve Brown:
Oh yes.

Pete Alwinson:
And I retract that. You’ve done it. I don’t know if I’ve ever done it.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. The question kind of gives the idea that a Christian won’t sin knowing, and then go, but, that’s nonsense.

Pete Alwinson:
We do.

Steve Brown:
Of course we do.

Pete Alwinson:
You know the alcoholic brother who’s a Christian says, I know I should not take this drink, but he does. And he’s depending on the

Steve Brown:
and that’s intentional

Pete Alwinson:
and it’s intentional, knowingly, and he’s sad doing it. And he, and he repents of it. But, and he is forgiven. So that’s the, that’s the amazing nature, the radical nature of grace.

Steve Brown:
It really is.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s not encouraging us to sin, as a matter of fact, the shame and the guilt that you feel afterwards makes you repent. And then you say, I don’t want to ever do that again.

Steve Brown:
And even, and the reason you maybe won’t, is because you know, if you do, you’ll be forgiven. That. I mean, that’s, we’re so, but don’t think that, sin as awful.

Pete Alwinson:
It is. That’s right.

Steve Brown:
I mean, the reason it’s sin this because it’s destructive. And it kills you. It’s not because it’s nasty or because, nice people just don’t do that. Don’t be silly. Sin, will eat you alive and spit you out in pieces. And that’s the reason God talks about it, but not because he won’t forgive us, whatever we do, even intentional stuff.

Pete Alwinson:
Exactly. I mean, sin is a doughnut, I mean, sin looks like a doughnut, most sin looks good, idols look good.

Steve Brown:
They really do.

Pete Alwinson:
We don’t make idols out of bad things, we make them out of good things and make them ultimate things.

Steve Brown:
Listen, this is a question we’ve gotten before. What are the Biblical guidelines on tithing or rules on tithing? It’s an e-mail question.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, it goes to your ministry or mine, either way. That’s where, that’s the main rule on tithing.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. Give it to us, And give as much as you can, minimum being 10%. You think that’d be right. And if you do you get free sins. And if you don’t, you get the fever and die. It’s that simple. No, tithing is a good practice. Don’t you think?

Pete Alwinson:
Absolutely. And I, you know, it’s great teaching that leverages you to the whole reality of generosity, that God owns it there with everything.

Steve Brown:
That’s right.

Pete Alwinson:
And, as we grow in Christ, we start out with a tithe and then we begin to loosen our hands on everything else as we get older and you start giving to this and to that, and more of your time, your treasures, your talent. And ultimately before you realize it, you go, well, Jesus, you really own me,don’t you? Yeah. And that’s what he wants.

Steve Brown:
Of course, you know, the 10% has a lot of detractors and affirmers about that. And there’s a lot of teaching about what it means, does it have to do with a theocracy and that’s nonsense. It’s kind of a good practice to think of 10 %, that God lets you keep 90% of his stuff. That’s a kind and good God, I would say.

Pete Alwinson:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Steve Brown:
Alright. You going to show up next week?

Pete Alwinson:
Yes sir. With my tithe.

Steve Brown:
We’ve got to go. We’re so glad you spent this time with us. And one other thing, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.