“What does it mean to deliver somebody to Satan?”

Steve Brown:
What does it mean to deliver somebody to Satan? The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Welcome to Key Life. Our host and teacher is Steve Brown. He’s no guru, but he does have honest answers to honest questions about the Bible. God’s grace changes everything, how he love, work, live, lead, marry, parent, evangelize, purchase and worship. So, here’s Steve and Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com with street-smart Bible teaching for real life.

Steve Brown:
Thanks Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey man. That’s a heavy one.

Steve Brown:
Oh, it is. It’s the statement that Paul made in I Corinthians about church discipline. And, that has caused all kinds of questions. And it’s an e-mail question that we’re going to get to very, very soon. You’re doing good.

Pete Alwinson:
Good to see you. You’re looking great.

Steve Brown:
You know, I was telling you that I’ve just joined a small group. It’s something that I don’t do very often because my wife says, if I’m going to do that, I’ve got to keep my mouth shut and that’s very hard but I just joined a small, my wife and I, a small group. There’re guys in there that are involved with Forge. And Pete, they were incredible. They’re thoughtful, they’re informed. And they blame you for both. If you are in the central Florida area, they’re still, there are three different groups, right?

Pete Alwinson:
Yes.

Steve Brown:
If you’ll go to ForgeTruth.com you can get the locations. And it’ll be well worth your while. And Pete, as you know, comes in on Fridays and we answer questions. And we really do like to get your questions. You can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, record your question. And sometimes we put your voice on the air. Or you can write to

Key Life Network
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If you’re in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
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Or you can e-mail your question to [email protected] And if you can help us financially, please do. By the way, you can give on your phone. If you text Key Life at 28950 and follow instructions. You can do that. And it’s our prayer that a lot of you do, it’s an expensive ministry. And I promise that we’ll be faithful with your gift. We’re a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And as I said, we’ll be as faithful with your gift as you were in giving it. And if you can’t or don’t feel led to, we get that, do say a prayer for this ministry. Pete, why don’t you pray and then we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright, let’s pray. Our Father, we do come to you today and just pause momentarily to thank you and honor you as our great God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And as your children, we bow before you, we recognize that everything good has come into our life because of you, you are gracious and kind and loving and patient with us. You’re forgiving. You are the God who is also sovereign holy and righteous. And we’re so thankful that you combine who you are in that way toward us. We love you. And we thank you that you loved us first and came after us. And even this week-end, we look forward to being in worship with your people and finding joy and just exalting who you are. So, be with our leaders, our worship directors, pastors, teachers, priests, as they stand before us and usher us into your presence. And we pray, that we would not only be there, but we pray that we would hear your voice. And so, Lord now in this time of Q&A we ask that you would do great things in our life. Forgive us of our sins but Lord answer the questions that we have. Thanks for Steve and the whole crew here at Key Life. Honor and bless your name in this time. We ,pray in Jesus name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen, Pete, this first question is an e-mail question. It’s on church discipline and that passage in I Corinthians 5, where the apostle Paul was talking about the discipline that ought to take place in the church. Calvin said that was one of the signs of a true church. We don’t do it right, but we need to do it and to do it in a way that’s Biblical. So, this is the e-mail question. What does you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. What does that mean?

Pete Alwinson:
Well, you got to go after it.

Steve Brown:
Well sometimes, and I think sometimes you get parents who tell their kids, they’re wonderful and they deserve, and the world’s not fair, but it’s going to be fair to them and everything’s going to work out fine and they’re good looking and beautiful and all that. And that’s unconscionable, that you would teach that to your kids, but it’s okay. Because when you, when they leave, others are gonna teach them the truth and it’s not going to be very pleasant. And there’s a sense in which this idea of discipline, Paul says, don’t fix the circumstances that are faced by people as a result of their sin. Let the circumstances, in other words, give them over to the devil, let the circumstances do some teaching so that that person will repent and come back to God’s people. There’s something, you know, there’s something to be said about and you know, we’re constantly fixing things for people. And sometimes we don’t need to fix things. When we fix things, then we truncate the teaching that God would give.

Pete Alwinson:
Boy, that’s powerful. It is one of those disconcerting texts.

Steve Brown:
It is.

Pete Alwinson:
But it really does show that that Paul, we can’t fix everything. And that Paul didn’t try to fix everything.

Steve Brown:
Right.

Pete Alwinson:
The gospel, God is at point in bringing people to faith and also leading us in our own repentance times. For the first time coming to Christ, but then repentance over time.

Steve Brown:
Oh, we live a life of repentance.

Pete Alwinson:
And we should, and yet, like when, if my wife’s trying, thinks I ought to repent over something, she can’t make me repent. Right?

Steve Brown:
That’s true, but circumstances may bring you to that.

Pete Alwinson:
They sure can.

Steve Brown:
Because God operates within the context of circumstance. We, we get a lot of questions from parents whose kids, sexually have gone off the rails, maybe in terms of some of the things that are acceptable in our culture, that shouldn’t be. And, they need to make their position clear and lovingly, then they need the love their kids and get out of the way.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, that’s right.

Steve Brown:
Because you’ll be surprised, if you build a wall that your kids can’t get back home over. That’s a mistake. So, you love your kids and you say you’re adults. I wish you wouldn’t do that. I think that violates some very important things, but you know, you’re my kid and I’m not perfect. So, I love you and then get out of the way and see what God does through circumstances.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
It may take awhile, but you’ll be surprised.

Pete Alwinson:
And really, these circumstances, it’s important for us to realize that when we do go outside of God’s will, there will be consequences for it. Jesus said the way is narrow, but God’s narrow way is not to mess up our life, it’s to make it successful.

Steve Brown:
Exactly.

Pete Alwinson:
So, when we go outside of it, then we will bear the consequences of it. And, I see this with men who have been unfaithful to their wives and they want their wife to forgive them in 30 seconds. Okay. I’m sorry. And it might take years for the forgiveness to come, if at all. So, we have to be, we have to realize we can’t fix all these things that we bear consequences.

Steve Brown:
And we have to be careful when we answer this kind of question because there is the danger of divine, earthly, retribution and reward. It doesn’t work that way, sometimes they are bad circumstances, sometimes they’re not. So, you trust God’s wisdom in dealing with people, fixing others is above our pay levels.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
Hey, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
I have friends who are believers and friends who are Christ rejecters. It’s almost like I have more respect from our friends who are Christ rejecters because they live how they live. But then I have a lot of friends who are so-called believers, I guess they are, I don’t know, but they like my friends who are Christ rejecters, but they say that they are true believers. And I don’t get it. When I talk like this, I’m not trying to beat them over the head about telling them how they should live, but my believing friends, are they believers? Have a great day. Bye.

Steve Brown:
Good question. And, I’m telling you, I don’t think you ought to beat your friends over the head that are believers, but you have to earn the right to be heard. And you have to say it without being a Pharisee about it and beating people over the head. I think also that you sound young. If you’re old and look a little bit more, you’ll find a lot of believers who are walking it, for whom the Christian faith has made a lot of difference, a lot more than you think. I used to make that statement that I was happier in bars with pagan friends than I was in church. That was a lie. That’s not true, listen, my best friends are people who are Christians cause I can’t abide the others. And for the most part, their relationship with Christ made them better.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, no I agree with that. If he is new walking in Christ and a lot of these men, but it may well be that some of these people grew up in a church culture that didn’t emphasize discipleship, what it meant to actually follow Jesus. Grace is that incredible gift that when we understand what Jesus has done for us, we want to be better.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, it makes us better.

Pete Alwinson:
It makes us better. It energizes, it’s the power that, I want to wake up and grow and be what Jesus wants. And maybe they don’t have a clear idea of the nature of their own sin and what Jesus actually died to produce for them.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And, I think it’s, you’ve gotta be careful, when you’re dealing with Christians and they’re not living the way you think they should live, to say, well, they’re probably not saved because that’s above your pay level. And, C.S. Lewis said, when somebody turns, which is what conversion means, it depends on how far down the road. So, with some, a smile will please God more, then with somebody else who feeds the hungry and helps those who are in need because that person would have done it that way anyway. So, it’s hard to measure those kinds of things and either way, whether you’re good or bad, Jesus loves you. And if you know that, you get better most of the time.

Pete Alwinson:
And you can always say something really simple like, well my conviction is I got to do this and not that. That’s how I’m trying to, without being judgemental. I like what you said, and then you could follow it up or something like that.

Steve Brown:
Hey guys, we’ve got to go, but we’re glad you’re here. You always have a seat at our table and our table is called Key Life Network. And this program is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.