“What would have happened if Jesus had not died?”

Steve Brown:
Hey, what would have happened if Jesus had not died? The answer to that, and other questions, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual, or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn’t for you. But, if you’re looking for honest Biblical answers to hard questions, then welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host, author, and seminary professor, Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeTruth.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey. Happy Friday, man.

Steve Brown:
Happy Friday to you.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
You doing all right?

Pete Alwinson:
Doing good. Doing good.

Steve Brown:
Well, as you know, people, Pete, by the way, we mentioned, not too long ago that Pete is teaching a wonderful series on the Book of Revelation. And, by the way, you did that when you were my pastor, and I was a member of your church, and that was one of the best teachings on Revelation I’ve ever heard. So, if you want to know something about the last book in the Bible, go to ForgeTruth.com and click the videos, and you can pick up some great teaching on the Book of Revelation. And if you’re looking for a men’s ministry in your church, you can get incredible help from Forge Ministries. Go to ForgeTruth.com. Hey, we love to get your questions and Pete and I enjoy this time. You can ask a question anytime you want, 24 7, when it comes to mind, pick up the phone, dial 1-800-KEY-LIFE and follow instructions. And sometimes we put your question on the air in your voice. Or you can write to

Key Life Network
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if you live in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
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Or you can send your question by e-mail to [email protected] and we’ll take your questions seriously. If you can help us financially, please do. We’ll rise up and call you blessed and we’ll squeeze every dime to the glory of God. And if you can’t, we understand. Just say a prayer for this ministry. Pete, why don’t you pray for us and we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
You got it. You got it. Father, what a joy at the end of this week to come into your presence. Lord, and to stop just for a minute and to honor you and to rest in your presence. Thank you for your grace and your mercy. Thank you that you know us. Thank you that you have good plans for our life. Thank you that you teach your word to us. Thank you that we have it to guide us, to lead us and guide us in the way we should go. Thank you for your Great Spirit who is within us. And Lord, you know us and you know our needs. You know those who need comfort, those who need encouragement right now in our audience. We thank you for them so much. We love them. And Lord, we pray by your Spirit that you would shepherd your flock. Do that now, right now, as we speak, but also this week-end, and we thank you for our pastors and priests and teachers and leaders, worship directors, all those who you have called out to be ready to lead us into your presence. And we pray that your Spirit would be poured out. Bring revival, bring a newness of life to your church in the world. We ask you for your glory. And now we commit this time of Q&A to you, answer our questions, and be honored and glorified. In Jesus’ Name we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
My question is, what happened if Jesus Christ didn’t die, what would be the outcome?

Steve Brown:
Well, you wouldn’t be asking the question. I mean, there wouldn’t be this broadcast. You never would have heard his name. You know, we think, well, he was such a great teacher, if he had just lived and they hadn’t crucified him, everybody would have read his books and seen him on television. He’d be all over the place. That’s not true. He was born in a little place, in a little country, a no place. And if he had not died, with all that means, I mean, that’s incredible in terms of the profound implications of that. But if he had not died, we wouldn’t be talking about him right now, nothing would be happening, and you would still be in your sins. So, deal with it.

Pete Alwinson:
That is great. You know, that’s one of those questions that one of my professors at Biola College years ago used to call the heresy of the hypothetical, because Jesus was born to die and rise again. But the whole purpose for his coming was to die in our place. But you said it right, we would never had heard of him if he just died.

Steve Brown:
No, we really wouldn’t. You know, we think, well, he was a great teacher, and he was. In fact, he was the one who wrote the entire Bible. There’s not anything in the New Testament that isn’t, can’t be found, in its completeness or its seed form in the Older Testament. And so, there were a lot of teachers around saying some good things. That’s not the reason Jesus came. He really did come to die for our sins.

Pete Alwinson:
And to therefore, in the long run, re-establish God’s plan and ultimate plan for this planet and for us.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, that’s true. Big deal. Hey, let’s try another phone line question.

Caller 2:
I suffered a massive stroke, and I was wondering what, you know, the past, what it says it did for power and it did for weakness, what that looks like?

Steve Brown:
You know, and it’s very easy to be flippant with a question like that. Well, you’re to praise God in all things, because we haven’t had a stroke yet. And I take very seriously somebody who says that. When you go through really bad stuff, it’s human and it’s acceptable to ask, why me? And how does this glorify God? And what am I supposed to do? That’s human. And God understands that. But, with that being said, we worship a sovereign and good God. And He’s sovereign and good all the time, even when you have a stroke. And I don’t know what God, I wouldn’t have given you a stroke if I were God, but I didn’t get a vote. And I don’t know answers. And that happens so often. You and I both have been pastors for years. And we buried more bodies, and stood beside more deathbeds, and been with people who received bad diagnosis. More than, and stood beside people who were committing suicide. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. And people always ask why. And sometimes you just have to say, I don’t know why. But in the dark, trust God, and don’t doubt what he taught you in the light.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh, that’s so good. Our hearts go out to you. I mean, we are sorry that you have been called to this in a sense. And I think Steve’s exactly right. I think you process your emotions with him. And you seek him and you ask humbly, Lord, what do you want to do? And it’s amazing what he does through our weakness. So, we’ll pray for your healing, and yet his power is enough in the midst of our weakness.

Steve Brown:
It really is.

Pete Alwinson:

My grace is sufficient for you.

Steve Brown:
You know, Katherine Marshall, and most of our listeners won’t know who that is.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. I know.

Steve Brown:
But she was a very, she was the wife of the man about whom she wrote a book called A Man Called Peter. And it was very popular. But anyway, I knew her, and she had a teaching that I thought was so good called the Prayer of Relinquishment. She had been through some really hard stuff and got sick, and she needed to be active, and she had people pray for her, and she tried all kinds of medications, and went to doctors, and nothing changed. And so, finally she fell back on her bed and she prayed what she calls the prayer of relinquishment.

Pete Alwinson:
I love it.

Steve Brown:
And she said.

God, I hate this. I just hate it. My husband needs me and I’m here in this sick bed. I can’t do anything. But you’re God. And I relinquish it to you.

And she said, when I prayed that prayer, there was an amazing sense of relief and peace.

Pete Alwinson:
Yes, yes.

Steve Brown:
And in her case, at that moment, she started getting well. But that doesn’t mean that’s a promise that when you pray relinquishment that you then get healed. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t. But you will get the peace.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
So, if you’re going through a stroke, say, God, how could you treat your children this way? I hate this, but I know you and I know you’re good and I relinquish it. If this is where you want me, I accept it.

Pete Alwinson:
I think that’s ultimately where we need to get, no matter what our trials are.

Steve Brown:
It’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
The James 1 chapter is just powerful for all kinds of trials and the bottom line is our hope is not in this world, but it’s on the other side and the new heaven and new earth when Jesus comes and brings it back. So ultimately, we’re all going in the direction of physical decline and eventual restoration in Christ.

Steve Brown:
So good. This is an e-mail. What is the significance of a blood sacrifice in terms of Jesus Christ?

Pete Alwinson:
Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, that’s why they instituted all of the sacrifices in the Old Testament to show the substitute for sin. The lambs, the goats, the bulls. And Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away our sins. So, it really is a substitutionary atonement.

Steve Brown:
And you know, that’s because God decided it would be

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
I mean, he decided it was good. If he wanted to do it a different way, he could have. He’s God and we don’t get a vote. But not only did he do it that way, he prepared us for it.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s true.

Steve Brown:
For the coming of Christ and his sacrifice. Every culture that we know about in the entire world for all of human history has understood the concept of sacrifice. Without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sin. And that’s everywhere. I mean, it’s built into the human DNA. And what God was doing is that he was preparing for the significance of the way he decided that he was going to call us to himself.

Pete Alwinson:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And because of God’s holiness and justice, there must be a sacrifice for sin.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. You know, we start thinking about it, you know, I can remember when I was a kid and we sang the songs about the blood of Jesus and not understanding that and thinking, let’s sing something else. Man, you can’t sing anything else. Because that’s the song of the Christian, the blood of Christ, which covers all sin.

Pete Alwinson:
A bloodless Christianity is not Christianity.

Steve Brown:
And people try to do that, don’t they?

Pete Alwinson:
I know, they do.

Steve Brown:
They want to make it into a moral system, or a nice way to live, or a deep psychology from God. It’s not any of those things.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right, that’s right.

Steve Brown:
It is that we are great sinners, and we have a great Savior.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. A great and holy God who has paved the way for us to be forgiven.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And listen, if you haven’t run to him, do that. I promise you that if you do, he won’t be angry and he’ll welcome you with open arms. Hey, that’s it. We’ve got to leave. But first, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.