“I’m apostate. Am I going to hell?”

Steve Brown:
I’m apostate. Am I going to hell? The answer to that, and the other questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn’t for you. But if you’re looking for honest, Biblical answers to honest questions. Welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host, author and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Yes, you are.

Steve Brown:
What do you mean? Yes, I am. That’s not a.

Pete Alwinson:
I’m answering your question, you said you’re an apostate.

Steve Brown:
I didn’t bring you in here to demean me.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey, you’re looking good. How you doing?

Steve Brown:
That’s Pete Alwinson, by the way. And, for twenty-five years, he and I have sat down in these chairs and this studio, and we’ve answered questions that you guys have asked, and we have been so flattered that you would ask those questions and trust us in the answers that we give. And you also are willing to check the Scriptures to make sure that we’re not wrong, because sometimes we are. Pete Alwinson by the way, has a ministry and it’s called Forge. And if you’re anywhere in central Florida and you’re a guy, you might want to be a part of it. And if you go to ForgeTruth.com, you can get some locations and you can also there, and at the Key Life website, get Pete’s book, Like Father, Like Son and the audio version. Is that out yet?

Pete Alwinson:
Not yet.

Steve Brown:
But it’ll be out soon.

Pete Alwinson:
I hope.

Steve Brown:
Okay. It’s done though.

Pete Alwinson:
I don’t know? I’m not in charge of it. Our producer’s in charge of it.

Steve Brown:
Okay. But soon the audio version will be out. By the way, we love to get your questions. You can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 seven, you hit the right button, record your question and sometimes, very often, we put your voice on the air. Or you can send your question to

Key Life Network

P.O. Box 5000

Maitland, Florida 32794

In Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6J8

Or you can e-mail us at [email protected]. And if you can help us financially, you get three free sins. Well, you get, your sins are covered anyway. So that’s really an empty promise, but I have it on good authority, that God will give you a bigger house or. How about that?

Pete Alwinson:
You know, Steve you’re, you’re, you’re in deep weeds right now, buddy.

Steve Brown:
Listen, do help us if you can financially. And if you can’t, we understand, we’re a not for profit organization and we’re a part of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And we promise that we’ll be as faithful with your gift, as you were in giving it. And if you can’t, say a prayer. Why don’t you say a prayer? And then we’ll get to these questions,

Pete Alwinson:
Father, thank you for your goodness. Thank you, that at the end of this week, we can come and sit back and exhale and, and rest in you. Thank you that you love us far more than we even comprehend. Thank you that the cross took care of everything and that we are safe and secure. And really at home with you and we pray that Holy Spirit, you would take that comfort and put it into our hearts right now. And even this week-end, as we get to worship, and we pray for our pastors and worship leaders and priests and teachers and all those that serve so sacrificially. Lord, bring your church together, the church for which you died and rose again on their behalf. Lord, use that time for us to honor you and be built up in the most holy faith. We commit this time of Q&A to you, right now in your holy name, Lord Jesus. Amen,

Steve Brown:
Amen. Let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
I was once a Christian and I fell away, became a complete apostate. And over a period of time, I realized, what a mistake that was. Just wonder if there was any forgiveness for apostates.

Steve Brown:
We have such good news for you. I hope you’re listening. I mean, we have such good news that you won’t, I mean, you’ll speak in tongues and dance. I mean, you just don’t know. First, you wouldn’t have called if you had committed the unforgivable sin. It wouldn’t bother you. You would be a total pagan and wouldn’t give a rip. And you obviously do. Do you know where that comes from? That comes from God’s Spirit. That means he never let you go. It means you’re no, no matter how long you’ve been in the pig farm, you come on home and go I read that, what’s the text?

Pete Alwinson:
Luke 15.

Steve Brown:
Go read it, and put your name in the name of the Prodigal and you come on home. And I promise you on the basis of God’s word, you’ll be welcomed. And it will be, Lincoln said, when they asked him what he was going to do about the south after the Civil War. Lincoln said, it will be as if they never left. Well, it’ll, that’s the good news. It’ll be as if you never left. Don’t let anybody tell you any different, then what we’re saying to you.

Pete Alwinson:
Wow. I mean, you know, my, my heart is in my throat right now.
I mean, no, seriously, that’s so true. And I appreciate the humility of this man show, and he’s a brother. You, you don’t come back unless, unless your heart has truly gone through it. And you’re truly repentant. We do go, we do sometimes backslide, that word is in the Bible, like I think one time, but it is there and some churches overuse it, but we do, we backslide, we thought we can be taken over by the world for a period of time, but we always come home, if we’re his.

Steve Brown:
And there’s been a misuse of a couple of passages in Hebrews. And if you, if people have brought that up to you, you drop us a note. And we’ll give you a proper exegesis of those passages. They’re not talking about you. They’re talking about somebody else, and they’ll bring up the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. That’s unforgivable. That’s not because God wouldn’t forgive, it’s because you wouldn’t ask. And, you obviously are cool. So, you come on home.

Pete Alwinson:
Welcome home brother.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. Welcome home brother. Alright, let’s see here. Can a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ be saved?

Pete Alwinson:
Well,

Steve Brown:
That’s an e-mail.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s a tough one though. Isn’t it? Because the Bible says that there’s only one name, about which a man could be saved and we know that we’re supposed to receive Jesus, although we don’t know how he often reveals himself. He can reveal himself in some pretty unique ways to people.

Steve Brown:
And, there is the Ordo salutis. You know, and I’m not going to go into that.

Pete Alwinson:
The order of salvation.

Steve Brown:
The order of salvation. And it suggests that you don’t have faith and then get saved, you’re saved and then you have faith. And they both come so close together, it’s hard to tell the difference, but it means that that salvation is a gift that God gives and is given from the foundation of the earth. If you die before you hear about Jesus, then theoretically, yeah, you could get to heaven. You read Hebrews 11, nobody in that chapter knew Jesus, but their faith was accounted as righteousness.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And so, you know, those are little glimmers of light that you can find in Scripture, but you gotta be careful.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s right. We, you don’t want to push that too far.

Steve Brown:
No, you don’t.

Pete Alwinson:
And that’s why the church is supposed to be proclaiming the name of Jesus, boldly. Our job is to, is to, is to let his glory be known on the planet.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And, that’s the ordinary regular way that people come to Christ. They hear the gospel, and they run to Jesus.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And that’s the way it ought to be. There are those glimmers of light, but you have to be careful about those. And this, this is another one. Since we’re talking about the subject, this e-mail writer said, what does the Bible teach about election? It says, it’s true. So, deal with it. Where do you stand on this issue? I stand with Jesus, but more needs to be said than that.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, yeah, it really is a big issue. And if people are dead spiritually and cut off, the question is how do you become alive? Election deals with that issue. And it deals with, and so really, I just recommend reading through the gospel of John. And John is a more theological book. It really is, but you will see this issue come up over and over again. And, it’s been very satisfactory to me, particularly in chapter 6, by the time you get there. And you begin to see how God does love, how God reaches out, how Jesus has moved, and yet ultimately he’s working in people’s hearts behind the scenes.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And then you got to deal with, and that’s where the rub comes, you gotta deal with those places in Scripture, that assume responsibility, that assume freedom of choice. And, I don’t know anybody who knows how to put those things together.

Pete Alwinson:
Right. That’s the challenge. God’s sovereignty, man’s responsibility.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. And, they don’t work well together. And, Fred Smith used to say, and I’ve heard him say it a lot.

The essence of Christian maturity is to have a high tolerance for ambiguity.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Right.

Steve Brown:
We are talking about God here. I do want to say though that, while I accept the doctrine of election and responsibility slash freedom, I think that as God decides, he does it with tears in his eyes, because I think he’s a God who is love. And I think it’s not his will, the Scripture says that any should bare it. And I don’t interpret that in a reformed way. I interpret it in a normal way, that it means what it says, that it’s not his will. In other words, his heart is, that if he could do it a different way, he’d save everybody. But there are certain proclivities, certain responsibilities, certain areas of God’s sovereignty, that are just what they are. And so I think God weeps for the lost, in exactly the same way we weep for the lost.

Pete Alwinson:
And, and I really appreciate that. And I think we need to know God’s heart and we need to not be hard and harsh on God, because he is supreme. And one day we will be able to see this, more clearly from his perspective.

Steve Brown:
And we’ll be able to, to understand what was going on.

Pete Alwinson:
Right. And we shouldn’t be fighting each other on this, we should be discussing it as believers, but not pigeonholing each other and criticizing each other for holding different views.

Steve Brown:
You know, I, and with you, I see the doctrine of election as an extremely comforting doctrine. Somebody said that that doctrine and others like it, are Christian family secrets. You know, you don’t go out and preach that in the corner drugstore, but it’s something that we know and we can rest in. And that means that he’ll never let us go.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s good.

Steve Brown:
That’s kind of a good place to be. And it’s probably a good place to leave. So, we’re out of here. But before we go, one of the thing, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.