“Was Jesus really, really human?”

Steve Brown:
“Was Jesus really, really human?” The answer to that question and others, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual, or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn’t for you. But, if you’re looking for honest, Biblical answers to honest questions, welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host, author and seminary professor, Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Peter.

Pete Alwinson:
How you doing man?

Steve Brown:
I’m doing good.

Pete Alwinson:
Good, good, good.

Steve Brown:
I’m, in fact, I’m doing really good. I’m going to go home and swim laps.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. Pound it out. Just watch the end of the pool, that’s all I’m asking.

Steve Brown:
So, I don’t have to do stuff you do. Now, you were in Colorado recently.

Pete Alwinson:
Did a little hiking.

Steve Brown:
What do you mean a little hiking? You know, it was major. You climbed up a mountain and you shouldn’t be climbing mountains with your leg in trouble. And you’re getting older.

Pete Alwinson:
You prayed for me and I got healed. Yeah. Don’t tell me I can’t do it. Come on bro.

Steve Brown:
Pete does things that I just, you know, I’ve never done. He is the consummate athlete.

Pete Alwinson:
No, no, no, no.

Steve Brown:
You are. Just don’t be humble on me. I’m trying to help you out here. And he really did have a problem with his knee and you found out that it didn’t prevent you from hiking.

Pete Alwinson:
Still works. So, that’s good.

Steve Brown:
Hey listen, if you’re living in Central Florida and you’re looking for a group of guys that are honest and authentic and have gotten together and get grace, let me recommend Forge to you. You can go to Forgetruth. com and you can get some locations. Great podcast, you can get Pete’s book, Like Father Like Son a lot of good material. It’s called forge truth. com. And Pete, as you know, comes in on Fridays and we answer questions and we’re always glad for your questions. The only dumb one is the one you don’t ask. You can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, follow the instructions and ask your question and sometimes we put your voice on the air. Or you can write to

Key Life Network
P.O. Box 5000
Maitland, Florida 32794

or in Canada

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6J8

or Steve, if you want to e-mail [email protected]. Haven’t mentioned this in a while, but you know, you can give on your phone, text Key Life at 28950 that’s 28950 and just follow the instructions. If you can help us financially, we’ll appreciate it. If you can’t, we understand. Why don’t you lead us in prayer Pete. And then we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
All right. All right. Our Father, what a privilege it is today to come into your presence, to come into the presence of the Triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And thank you for showing us who you are in powerful ways, in your word, preeminently in Jesus, but also through the people that you bring into our lives and how the Holy Spirit has used them to bring us to you. So, we come to you, Lord. And at the end of the week, some of us might be a little tired, some of us may be wondering what’s next, how we’re going to pay some of the bills. Lord, some of the relationships that we need restored, some of the strength that we need for the future. So, we come before you, we put ourselves in your good hands and we honor you and we praise you. We ask that you do a great work in us. Lord, restore the joy of our salvation and even this week-end as we gather for worship, Lord, help us to resist just being alone and staying alone and just watching online, help us to get out there and get with your people. And we pray for our leaders, our preachers, our teachers, our worship directors, our priests, Lord, may they draw us into your grace and mercy. So, thanks for this time. Thanks for the reality of your great love and Jesus your finished work on the cross. We give you praise in your holy name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Hey Pete, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
Did Jesus Christ ever have sex whether it was in the premortal, mortal, or afterlife?

Steve Brown:
I don’t know if I understood that. What did she say?

Pete Alwinson:
Did Jesus Christ ever have sex before he became a man, while he was a man, or after he was a man?

Steve Brown:
Well, before and after, no. I mean, that’s a whole different thing that isn’t going on. And I was kind of shocked when Jeremy, our producer, told me what the question was going to be. And being shocked meant that I don’t accept what it means to be human in the Incarnation. And the wince said something about my bad theology. I do not think that Jesus had sex. And by the way, the movie that we all hated so much, The Last Temptation of Christ, didn’t say that, it said it was tempted at that particular place. And no, I really don’t think he did. I think there would be more in Scripture that would refer to his wife or his companion than is there. But could he, was he tempted? Of course he was.

Pete Alwinson:
Sure. And the Bible’s clear that he was tempted in all ways that we are, but without sin.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, that’s right. And so, that probably means or it absolutely does mean that he didn’t have sex because he wasn’t married.

Pete Alwinson:
Right.

Steve Brown:
So, there was no sin involved, but he thought about it. And if that offends us, we need to go back to the Scriptures and understand what it means to be human.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Yeah. Human sexuality is created by God. And so, it’s not an off Bible topic, it’s very important. And it’s become an idol in American culture today in many, many ways. But yeah, you know, as you read the Gospels and even the fathers of the early church, you sense that Jesus lived a life of integrity and in obedience to the law. Now, he was born of a virgin, so he didn’t have the sin nature that we had. That doesn’t mean his temptation was not real, it was external rather than internally generated, I would say.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And I think the discussion is really good and the question is really good because it makes us think through those issues. The Incarnation wasn’t a game. I mean, we have this idea that God said I’m going to enter time and space and play like a man and then teach some things, but they won’t know. And that’s not what happened.

Pete Alwinson:
No.

Steve Brown:
He really did become, born of a woman, he blew his nose the way we do, he was tired the way we do, he was lonely the way we’re lonely. It means everything that it means to be a human being, without sin.

Pete Alwinson:
Without sin. That’s right. That’s right. So, you know, to this young lady I would say, continue to invest time looking into Jesus. And I don’t know if you’re a believer yet, but if not, he’s worth trusting your whole life to.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. This is an e-mail, Pete. Where did Christ go after his death on the cross? Where did his spirit go?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, we can get into a lot of discussion on that, but you know, he said to the thief on the cross today, you’ll be with me in paradise.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
So, how do you take that?

Steve Brown:
Well, it depends on where you put the comma. Jesus said to him today, comma, you will be with me in paradise. Or Jesus said, comma, today you will be with me in paradise. But you know, I don’t think this is an answer that God wants us to have. If you read I Peter there are a couple of references there about Jesus preaching after his crucifixion. And some people have taken that, oh man, miles away from what Peter said. But there are those references and Peter says it the first time and you say you don’t understand. And then in the fourth chapter, that’s in the third chapter, the fourth chapter, he opens with saying it again. That Jesus preached to the prisons, those who were in prison, referring to those who were dead. What does that mean? I have no earthly idea.

Pete Alwinson:
And when it says he led captives captive, out of captivity.

Steve Brown:
What in the world does that mean?

Pete Alwinson:
There are a couple of obscure phrases that are related to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus that are a little bit difficult to really nail down.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
So, in the unclear passages, we do not as a practice, build a whole lot of doctrine on that.

Steve Brown:
That’s so true, but we try. And that’s where cults come from. So, do you know what happened after the crucifixion, before the resurrection? Something did. Maybe when we get home we’ll be surprised, but something happened and God has not been very specific about it. And when he’s not very specific about it, we’re not going to be very specific about it. We’re about to run out of time. So, let me give you a simple question. What do you have to do to be saved? It’s an e-mail.

Pete Alwinson:
Boy, that’s an easy one, isn’t it?

Steve Brown:
Run to Jesus.

Pete Alwinson:
Run to Jesus.

Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Steve Brown:
And it’s that simple, we make it into something really complicated, but it’s having a need and running to Jesus who is sufficient for that need.

Pete Alwinson:
Boy, that is so true. He loves to bring us to the end of ourselves. We stopped giving our excuses for our sins and our justifications for how good we really are and we just say, that’s enough, I trust you and you alone.

Steve Brown:
You know, the thing that worries me most about our cultural situation today, and there are a lot of things that do, about sexuality, about the whole woke thing, the cancellation of free speech, and all of those things that really bother me. But the thing that bothers me the most is the self righteousness because that’s the thing that will keep you out of heaven. It’s the very thing that will keep you from running to Jesus for forgiveness because you don’t think you need it. And that is kind of sad.

Pete Alwinson:
Boy, it really is. And so, eventually and really as we grow in Christ, it’s really more that realization that he did it all for us.

Steve Brown:
And that is important to remember. You know, we really do need to be aware of our sins or we don’t think we need a Savior. Martin Luther said.

There are two things that are always true. We’re great sinners and we have a great Savior.

And our culture doesn’t believe we’re great sinners. We believe you’re great sinners and you shouldn’t have free speech and you should sit down and be ashamed of yourself and I’m going to cancel you and can’t get to heaven that way. But we’re out of here. Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.