“Will Adam and Eve be in heaven?”

Steve Brown:
Will Adam and Eve be in heaven? The answer to that and other questions, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn’t for you. But if you’re looking for honest, Biblical answers to honest questions, welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host, author, and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey man. How you doing?

Steve Brown:
I’m doing really good. How are you doing?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, Doing well. Doing well. Been a good week.

Steve Brown:
We’ve repeated often that we do a lot better on the week-ends, once we’re no longer pastors. Week-ends were, everybody else was having a good time. And I had my nose in the Bible working and looking out the window and thinking, Jesus, couldn’t I go into vinyl repair or something?

Pete Alwinson:
Well that’s cause you traveled all week long and then you came back and had to do a message on Saturday for Sunday.

Steve Brown:
Well, you prepared yours weeks in advance, that used to intimidate me. I sometimes didn’t know what I was going to say till I said it.

Pete Alwinson:
Isn’t that amazing? You know, but that was your call. You had to be out there.

Steve Brown:
Pete Alwinson, he has a ministry here in Central Florida. And if you’re a guy, you ought to be a part of it. It absolutely is wonderful. You can find out about it by going to ForgeTruth.com. And by the way, if you haven’t read Pete’s book, Like Father Like Son, you ought to get it. And if you don’t like reading, it’s an audio version. And you can find out where to get that too at ForgeTruth.com. Pete, as you know, comes in and we answer questions on Friday and we love your questions. You can send your questions to

Key Life Network
P.O. Box 5000
Maitland, Florida 32794

in Canada

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6J8

you can e-mail your question to [email protected]. Or you can just pick up the phone, give us a call at 1-800-KEY-LIFE. Follow of the instructions, record your question, and sometimes we put your voice on the air. And if you can help us financially, please do. We are part of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. They assure ethical monetary practices. And we were that, before they came along, but we’re glad to have them affirm that. Charge it on your credit card or you can include it in the envelope and we’ll rise up and call you blessed. If you can’t and we understand that, do pray for this ministry. That would be appreciated too. Pete, why don’t you lead us in prayer and we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright. Our Heavenly Father, we do bow before you right now at the end of this week, and what a joy it is to be able to stop just for a minute and be still and know that you are God. It is an awesome thing to focus upon who you are as the one who spoke and out of nothing came the universe. And Lord, in all that you have created, you’ve done, it’s good, it’s perfect. And that is the way we see your will. Your will is good and acceptable and perfect. So, thank you for what you’ve allowed into our life this week. But Father, we do have a lot of challenges. And so, we come to you and we ask for your grace. We need your power. We need your perspective. We need your will to be made known to us. Encourage us, build us up, be with our pastors and priests and leaders and teachers and worship directors this week-end as we come into your presence, Lord, what a joy to be with your people and as the covenant community to worship you and to experience your presence in our lives. Be with us right now as we have, we give you our needs and our real challenges and ask that you to enable us to listen as we answer these questions so that we can learn from you. We commit this time, in the strong name of Jesus we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
Is Adam and Eve going to heaven?

Steve Brown:
That was quick.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, I know. Straight up. There it is. What do you think?

Steve Brown:
I don’t know.

Pete Alwinson:
I mean, Adam.

Steve Brown:
When you get there, check. Is Adam around here somewhere?

Pete Alwinson:
I mean, they both messed this whole thing up, right?

Steve Brown:
Yeah, they really did. It’s not built on works though. You know, it’s going to be really interesting. We think everything fits into a system. And the answer to that question is we don’t know. We really don’t. And where the Bible doesn’t speak, we generally try not to speak. So, we don’t know. And nobody knows, and anybody tells you, they do know, they don’t.

Pete Alwinson:
True.

Steve Brown:
Okay.

Pete Alwinson:
Beyond a shadow of a doubt. Right?

Steve Brown:
Yeah.

Pete Alwinson:
So, using sanctified, theological thinking, Biblical thinking, what would you guess?

Steve Brown:
Well, you know, they were chosen, from the very beginning in a way that was so profound that it makes even our being chosen look minor by comparison.

Pete Alwinson:
Wow. Yeah.

Steve Brown:
They did mess up, but people are not saved by their works or their goodness. And so, that can’t keep them out of heaven. They were named by God, that meant that he knew them. He created them, so maybe. You know, we have systems that will tell you whether you’re saved or not, and they’re usually propositional systems. If you believe a certain way, you’ll be saved. And if you don’t believe those things, you’re going to hell. And I understand that and I’m a part of the family that teaches that. But as a matter of fact, the question is who does Jesus hug? And he hugs a lot of weird people. And I think when we get to heaven, we’re going to be surprised at the people who are going to be there. A lot of people that didn’t get the propositions right. I have this dream, and I’ve told you before that when we got to heaven, God is going to say, I’ve got some good news and bad news for you. And a Presbyterian sitting on the third row will raise his hand and say, Tell us the bad news first. And he’ll say, the bad news is every one of you got it wrong. And then somebody will say, Good heavens, what’s the good news? And he’ll say, I’ll talked to my son about you. He said, You’re okay. So, you come on in. And it’s something almost that simple. It really is.

Pete Alwinson:
It is based on Jesus.

Steve Brown:
Yeah.

Pete Alwinson:
And Jesus alone and his work in our lives.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. That really is.

Pete Alwinson:
You know, if I were to reflect back on that, I would say theologians and Bible scholars tell us, you know, that well, the Bible says, they were clothed with animal skins. And so, there was a sacrifice of some sort that had to cover them up.

Steve Brown:
Hadn’t thought about that.

Pete Alwinson:
And so, they got a principle of sacrifice. They got the principle of substitution, substitutionary atonement. And I would say that close to Creation, walking with the Father in the garden, They knew him and were deeply sorrowful, even though, I mean, can you imagine living, knowing that you messed up the whole course of human history?

Steve Brown:
Oh yeah. You really would. And they didn’t go to Harvard, so they hadn’t gotten. So maybe, now that I think about it,

Pete Alwinson:
Because they didn’t go to Harvard, they probably got it right. I mean, you know, There it is.

Steve Brown:
We’re going to get letters for this.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. I know. Right.

Steve Brown:
This is an e-mail. What does the Bible teach about Communion?

Pete Alwinson:
Well, I mean the, what are the major schools, we got in trouble with this before.

Steve Brown:
I know, we do every time we deal with this, what is transubstantiation.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. That’s the belief of some that, when the pastor of priest elevates the host, it actually turns into the, the body of Christ, literally, even though it doesn’t have the taste of a, a human body or, and the wine is blood. That goes, I think beyond what we would say Scripture indicates. It’s symbolic, but it’s a spiritual thing. So, we would, I think we would take more of the view that there is something that really does go on in communion.

Steve Brown:
Supernatural

Pete Alwinson:
Supernaturally, we really are partaking of Christ, but through faith. And as we experience and it’s meant to build our faith, I mean, communion, the cup is called a cup of blessing. And so, it’s where there’s that deep remembrance of what Christ did, coupled with the work of the Holy Spirit to deepen our faith.

Steve Brown:
It really is. You know, I’ve been there and I’ve done that in terms of the issue, debating it and defining and dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s. I think sometimes we do too much of that. I think rather than making it an issue for debate, it ought to be an issue to experience. And for me, increasingly as I get older, I don’t do much thinking about that particular issue, but I love communion. Last Sunday we had communion in our church. And I, if you say I said this, I’ll say you lied, but I found myself getting so emotional, there were tears coming down my face, as people came forward and as I went forward, as we were thinking about the gospel and praising God for what he had done. And I believe those tears came from Jesus cause I think he was there. He was in the faith of his people. He was there in a sacrament that he said to do and I’ll show.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And that’s, I think that’s more important than winning the debate.

Pete Alwinson:
I agree. And there, and we have a full range of human emotions. Sometimes it is that way for me and other times it’s not. And I think don’t put pressure on yourself, just engage your heart and mind. Experience your Lord and take it.

Steve Brown:
That’s true. And we would, you know, we could bring up those issues and talk about consubstantiation and Knox’s view as opposed to Calvin’s and Luther’s. And you know, you can just go crazy with that thing. Go take communion. Jesus said, Do it.

Pete Alwinson:
It’s a sacrament. The two sacraments and we call them sacraments because Jesus instituted them. The Lord’s Supper and Baptism.

Steve Brown:
Hey, do you think there ought to be three sacraments? Washing feet.

Pete Alwinson:
You know.

Steve Brown:
He instituted that too.

Pete Alwinson:
I know, I know. I think that the qualitative difference is how he instituted it. I think it was a very good argument that, Yes. Then you’d have a Trinitarian Sacramental system.

Steve Brown:
How about that? Or, you know, if you’re a Roman Catholic, you’ve got seven.

Pete Alwinson:
I know.

Steve Brown:
Do you think God gets upset and angry if we don’t get the number right?

Pete Alwinson:
Well, I think we, well no. It could be cause salvation is dependent upon Jesus.

Steve Brown:
This is an e-mail too. Are we all Christians and non-Christians, Children of God?

Pete Alwinson:
In that broad sense, yes. The fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man, yes, in a broad sense. But you could take that too far.

Steve Brown:
Yeah. I had, when I was a young pastor, we used the Korean Creed that said.

I believe in the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.

That was before we were politically correct. And a lady came out and said, the Bible doesn’t teach that. And I said, yes it does. And I’ll show you. She said, where? I said, well give me a day or two. And I couldn’t find it because the real children of God are those who are believers and have been brought to God by the blood of Christ.

Pete Alwinson:
Amen.

Steve Brown:
Hey guys, we’re out of here, but before we go I must say. Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.