“How can I be in the world without becoming the world?”

Steve Brown:
“How can I be in the world without becoming the world?” The answer to that and other questions, on this edition of Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Key Life exists to communicate that the deepest message of Jesus in the Bible is the radical grace of God to sinners and sufferers. Life’s hard for everyone, so grace is for all of us. But there is a lot of confusion about how grace applies to real life, so here’s seminary professor and author Steve Brown and Pete Alwinson to answer your questions.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey! Happy Friday.

Steve Brown:
Happy Friday to you.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Are you preaching this Sunday?

Steve Brown:
Yeah. I am.

Pete Alwinson:
You are, as a matter of fact.

Steve Brown:
But I don’t do it every Sunday, which means that monkey is not on my back all the time.

Pete Alwinson:
So, you’re a little uptight. Is that what I hear?

Steve Brown:
That’s right. So, if I, if I should start crying or get depressed or sound suicidal, don’t give me medication. Call the church and say, Brown’s not going to show, say something spiritual. By the way, that’s Pete Alwinson and as you know, he comes in every Friday and we answer questions and we love your questions. You can send them to

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you can call anytime, 1-800-KEY-LIFE, follow instructions and we’ll record your question and maybe put it on the air. Or you can e-mail it [email protected] and if you can help us financially, please do. Those are good places for you to do that, and we’ll rise up and call you blessed. I promise that we squeeze every dime for the glory of God and that we’ll be as faithful with your gift as you were in giving it. So, if you can, be generous. If you can’t, we understand, but if you’re called to support this ministry, please do and we’ll do right by your gift. Pete, why don’t you lead us in prayer, and we’ll turn to some of these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Okay. Let’s pray. Our Great Father, we come into your presence right now, and we praise you. We look forward to worship on Sunday, but we praise you right now. We lift up the fact that you never change, that you are strong and mighty, that you are holy and righteous. And yet the way you deal with us is so gracious, and so merciful, and by your Holy Spirit, you call us out of the darkness into your marvelous light. And you graciously help us to see the end of ourselves and the fullness of glory and majesty and forgiveness in Christ. And so, we worship you and we love you. Lord, we ask you to continue to work in our lives and where we’re dealing with insecurity and fearfulness, Lord, help us trust you. Help us to trust you with all of our heart and soul and mind. Be with our leaders this week-end as they lead us into your presence. And would you use the worship services in our churches to build our faith on a firmer foundation of Christ. We commit to you this time of Q and A now, thankful for it. In Jesus’ strong name, we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. I said earlier that anytime you’ve got a question, you can pick up your phone and you can call 1-800-KEY-LIFE and follow instructions. And then this happens.

Caller 1:
So, if Jesus sat with the sinners and with the tax collector, right? It says, flee from all evil, even the appearance of evil. So, if my ministry is to go out and to preach to the prostitutes and the drug dealers and the murderers and everything like that, I’m not going to be labeled as one, but if I walk with them, God sat with the sinners but never sinned, right? But we’re human.

Steve Brown:
That’s a good question. It really is. Yeah, you’re human, but you have an advantage. The Spirit of God dwells in you. And so, you have a resource that maybe a lot of other people wouldn’t have in that situation. And yes, you are very wise to realize that you’re human. And sometimes in ministering to people who are committing the sins that we all know are sins, rather than changing them, we get changed, and certainly that happens. And so, a number of things might be a good idea. Maybe to remember that when you’re involved in those particular kinds of ministries, that you don’t do it alone.

Pete Alwinson:
Right.

Steve Brown:
I have a friend who has a ministry to strip clubs. It’s a lady, but she never goes to a strip club by herself. And she’s a former stripper. And she, when she takes guys, she makes sure there are other guys along with her when she goes in because there’s such temptation involved in that.

Pete Alwinson:
Can you imagine?

Steve Brown:
Oh yeah.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh, and I think, you know, I love her desire to be with the lost. And sometimes we segment ourselves so much as Christians. And that’s why it’s great to be in the workplace with unbelievers because we do need to rub off on them and we need to spend time with them. I guess I would also say, not only go with somebody else, like you said, but I would say that’s why we gather together with other Christians weekly at minimum one time, because we need that iron sharpens iron. We need that support, even if we have really a hands on ministry with some pretty bad people, some dark situations, we need to not miss church and fellowship.

Steve Brown:
So true. And by the way, don’t underestimate the power of prayer. I mean, as we get involved in the world, Fred Smith used to tell a story about a man who played the bass drum in a Salvation Army band. And at Christmas they were playing and the band leader asked him to come and give his testimony. And he said, I used to do nothing. I got drunk. I was running around with women. I was going to parties all the time. And then he stopped and he was silent for a minute. And then he said, and now all I do is beat this dumb drum. So, there is an attractiveness to the world. And we need each other and we need the prayer, we need to make sure that we’re walking together, that we’re gathering together, but we can’t not go because we’re here for them.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. And one of the strategies in this day and age is to understand how much are, how many people really are struggling with issues of identity and justice, of course, too. But we have answers, but we need to listen first and need to be asking questions of those people getting to really understand what they’re thinking before we drop the dump truck on them of the gospel and all we know. We need to really enter in and build a relationship.

Steve Brown:
I agree. And you’ll be surprised, you know, there are a lot of things that are bad about post modernity, which is the culture in which we’re living. A lot of bad stuff, but one of the good things is that if you’re willing to be authentic, if you’re willing to listen, and if you’re willing to be there in a relational sense, you won’t be rejected because of your Christian faith. And you will have opportunities, if you’ve listened to their story, to tell your story.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. True.

Steve Brown:
And it’s a, and it’s a good thing to do. So, that’s a good question. And it really stirs up all kinds of other ideas. Be careful out there, it’s dangerous. But you’ve got to go.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s good. That’s good.

Steve Brown:
You think, this is an e-mail, you think we’re living in the end times?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Well, we know we are because of Acts 2 and Peter’s sermon. He says, in these last times. The question is really, is this the end of the end?

Steve Brown:
Yeah, right.

Pete Alwinson:
Or is, you know, are we at the very end? There’s been so many civilizations and cultures that have come and gone since Jesus came to this earth.

Steve Brown:
And, you know, one of the things we have to be careful about, I personally believe that if we don’t see some real changes, we’re going to be in a mess that only Jesus’ return can possibly fix. So, when I was a teenager, I went to a Bible study with a lady named Aunt Gordy. And she had a house up on top of a mountain that looked over the city of Asheville. And every morning, she went to her kitchen window, opened it, and said. Maybe today. Maybe today. And I, you know, kind of feel things are so bad that this would not be a bad time for Jesus to return.

Pete Alwinson:
I know. I know. We are definitely seeing a decline in our culture

Steve Brown:
Oh, we really are.

Pete Alwinson:
and our influence in the world. I’m reading a book called The End of the World is Just the Beginning. And, as he talks about the end of globalization. The last 75 years after World War II, we are changing and the world is going to look different. Is it going to continue to decline to need this, the coming of Jesus?

Steve Brown:
Maybe.

Pete Alwinson:
Maybe.

Steve Brown:
And the interesting thing is that Christians throughout the history of the church have thought it was their time.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. Almost every Christian thinks it’s their time.

Steve Brown:
I know. And that was designed that way because it’s a great hope. It’s the reality and one generation is going to be right, when they say that they’ll, like Aunt Gordy opened the window and say, maybe today. And they’ll go, wow, it is today.

Pete Alwinson:
It is today. And they’ll think they’re a prophet.

Steve Brown:
What is that, Jesus is coming back to look busy. Why did God allow the fall?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Wow. Now that’s really one of the biggest questions in theology that we don’t have an answer. For his glory ultimately.

Steve Brown:
I’ve got an answer. That’s what I was going to say, that’s the answer. For his glory.

Pete Alwinson:
For his glory.

Steve Brown:
And would you rather not have known him?

Pete Alwinson:
Oh man.

Steve Brown:
I mean, that would be the only way is to create a world without a fall. And it would be a meaningless world because the things that are a part of the fall are the very things that give us freedom, responsibility, and opportunity to know the God of the universe. And knowing the God of the universe is for his glory, not ours.

Pete Alwinson:
Yes, that’s right, that’s right. And our good. His glory, our good.

Steve Brown:
And that is true.

Pete Alwinson:
And those two always go hand in hand.

Steve Brown:
Now, if I’d been God, which is, I know, don’t look at me that way, highly presumptuous.

Pete Alwinson:
I’m getting the matches out. Heresy is about ready to happen.

Steve Brown:
If I’d been God, I would have done it a different way.

Pete Alwinson:
Okay.

Steve Brown:
I don’t know exactly what I would have done. I need to think about it a little while. But as a matter of fact, I wonder sometimes, you know, that’s a lot of hassle and a lot of pain and a lot of sin, there must be a better way to do it than that. And God says, if there were, I would have done it that way. And so, we’re living, I believe, in the best of all possible worlds, where the most number of people would come to know Christ.

Pete Alwinson:
I agree with that. And we have to hang our hats on that and rest in the work of Jesus alone.

Steve Brown:
That’s right. And when we get home, I really think we’re going to see tears in God’s eyes and he’ll say, If I could have done it another way, I would, cause it’s not his will that any should perish. Well, that’s a good way to land the plane and we’re out of here. Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.