“If God’s not mad, what about hell?”

Steve Brown:
If God’s not mad, what about hell? The answer to that and other questions, on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes, then this program probably isn’t for you. But if you’re looking for honest, Biblical answers to honest questions, welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host, author, and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com

Steve Brown:
Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey man. I can’t wait to hear how you answer that question

Steve Brown:
I’m not answering

Pete Alwinson:
all alone.

Steve Brown:
Why do you think you’re here?

Pete Alwinson:
To pray for you as you answer these questions.

Steve Brown:
That’s Pete Alwinson, by the way, and I’ve told you a number of times, don’t forget to go to ForgeTruth.com. That ministry, Forge, is an amazing and powerful ministry. And that website is deep, there’s so much there, and you’ll be so glad. And if you haven’t read Pete’s book Like Father Like Son, what? Man, consider yourself uneducated. You’ll love that book. It’s written for men, but it changes the lives of women too. Like Father Like Son and you can get it at any, you get it at Key Life or any other place where good books are sold. And Pete comes in on Fridays and we answer questions for the entire broadcast and we’ve done that for a long time. By the way, when I say the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask, I mean that. We love to get your questions. You can call one 1-800-KEY-LIFE, 24 7, whenever you have a question, just pick up the phone, dial that phone number and record your question. And sometimes we put your voice on the air. Just remember that we’re the preachers and you’re not boy, do we get lectures on that line? But ask your question and we’ll take you seriously, or you can send your question to

Key Life Network
P.O. Box 5000
Maitland, Florida 32794

in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6J8

or you can email us at [email protected]. And as I always say, if you can help us financially, please do. You could make a major difference in some people’s lives. And if you can’t, pray for the ministry, we understand. So, help us if you can. If you can’t do that, pray. And if you can do both, you get three free sins. And that’s a joke, Pete, before this gets worse, pray for us and then we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
You’ve got it. Let’s pray. Our Father, we do just rejoice that we get to come to you so freely. We are amazed that the one who created this incredible, immense universe and this one planet, that has life made in your image. Lord, we thank you that we can come into your presence today. We are awed by who you are, how big you are, how powerful, how all-knowing and yet how loving and how very involved in our lives you are. So, we give you praise and honor you. And at the end of this week, we realize as the week is coming to the end and we look forward to worship, that you would be with our pastors and priests and teachers and worship directors. All those, our childrens’ directors and our childrens’ workers. And all those that really make church work for us on a practical level. Holy Spirit, we pray that you would show up and empower our leaders to speak to your people and bring your great name into fame and glory. And now, we just commit this time. Together with Key Life, we thank you for it. In Jesus’ strong name we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, this is an e-mail. Do our loved ones, in heaven see us? And do we sometimes see them?

Pete Alwinson:
You know, those that thought I wasn’t going to turn out all right, I hope they are. You know what, I think there’s some indications of that, but it’s one that’s very difficult to know. What stands out to you from the Scriptures?

Steve Brown:
Well, there isn’t much in Scripture about that. You know, you’ve got the thing with Samuel when the king came back and scared the witch to death. So, somebody was allowed to come back, or that may not have been the real king. Then you’ve got Lazarus, but you know, when you start thinking about somebody coming back, other than Jesus, the evidence gets pretty thin. And you have to be careful. People, you know, every time I’ve lost somebody I’ve loved and I’ve lost a number. I just can’t tell you how much I wanted to see them. There were things I wanted to say, there were things that they could do that I, but that’s not been allowed. Now, with all that being said, J.B. Phillips, who is the translator of the Phillips New Testament and a great New Testament scholar, was a friend of C.S. Lewis and in Phillips’ book, he, the name of the book is Your God’s Too Small. In the Introduction, he talks about, he was in his study after Lewis had died. And Lewis was standing there and he said it wasn’t a ghost, I couldn’t see through him, it was Lewis. He was in full bloom life. And he said to me, J.B., it’s not as bad as you think it is. And he disappeared. Well, did that happen? Well, I trust Phillips. I know, does my mother get to see what’s happened to me? Mary did you know? How about Mary? And we don’t have answers to that.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And we’ve got to be careful that we, and we have to be careful because they’re so apt to foolishness and illusion and wishful fulfillment.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
So, you’ve got to be careful.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. And it’s something the Scripture does not allow us to build a full-blown doctrine on that affects our everyday life. You’re absolutely right and that we don’t deify these people and that we have taught, we’ve been taught in Scripture how to pray, who to pray to, and who to pray through. We pray in the merit of Jesus. So, these things are very, very clear for us and but they are suggestive. I did a wedding and you were at, and you remember this young man who lost his father used to work for us.

Steve Brown:
Oh yeah.

Pete Alwinson:
And I said, I don’t know if God would ever allow that, but he’s good enough to allow your father to watch what’s happening today and to see the young kind of man you’ve become that you’ve become.

Steve Brown:
That statement blew me away when you said that.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, I just, I really felt it because I think God is that good that he would allow that to happen, but he’s not certainly constrained, nor does he promise that that happened.

Steve Brown:
Good stuff. Hey, listen, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
I received your publication from Key Life, and the first thing I see under it is a statement that God is not mad at you. If God’s not angry at anybody, then why does he send them to Hell?

Steve Brown:
No. No, he’s not mad at me. He’s mad at you. No, there, there’s a specific direction of that statement. I have found, and I’ve been doing this a very long time, that most Christians are motivated by the anger of God, and they’re not only motivated, they’re devastated by the anger of God. And so, our ministry is primarily a teaching ministry to believers and because of the Biblical doctrines that all Christians know and believe and affirm, justification and imputation. It is impossible for God to be angry at you because you’re clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Now, what about your neighbor down the street who makes an obscene gesture every time he hears the name of Christ? Is God angry at him? Of course he is. He’s not his child. And so, we are specifically appealing to and teaching and obviously this man who asked the question, is a believer.

Pete Alwinson:
Right.

Steve Brown:
Or he wouldn’t have called. And sir, the good news is that God really isn’t mad at you, even when you think he is.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. That’s so good. And that really crystallizes who Key Life is, what we’re about, and what the gospel is really about. So, Key Life is really about the true gospel, is that because all of the wrath of God was poured out on Jesus. He doesn’t have any wrath left for us.

Steve Brown:
Exactly.

Pete Alwinson:
Of course he’s not angry at us. He loves us, now does he discipline us? Sure. But we have to remember that God does not have human emotions. You know, I was late into this recording session today and you could have been angry at me for that or irritated at bare minimum, you know? But you weren’t.

Steve Brown:
Except I’m like so often that it’d be awful.

Pete Alwinson:
No, no, but you weren’t. And but, but that’s not

Steve Brown:
Yeah, but God’s not that way.

Pete Alwinson:
God’s not that way. And we think he has human emotions. He has emotions, but not human emotions.

Steve Brown:
No. And he’s not, and he’s not surprised with anything.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Right, right. Absolutely.

Steve Brown:
And you just have to remember that. And it is a, I said to a conference, when God’s not mad at you, if you’re a believer, and if you go to him and you’re not a believer, he won’t be mad at you. And a guy on the front row raised his hand and said, I disagree with you, Dr. Brown. I think he is mad at me, and I’m glad he is. I said sir, and I was very pastoral and kind. I said, sir, you’re a fruit cake. There’s something wrong with you, man, you want God to be mad at you. You know you don’t, you’ll get sizzled.

Pete Alwinson:
You know, Steve, there are people that don’t feel like they’ve had a good Sunday morning until they’ve been yelled at.

Steve Brown:
I know. And you can build a church on that if you want to.

Pete Alwinson:
And there’s something related around the idea of works righteousness in that, I’ve endured the wrath of God and therefore, at any rate, the gospel, the great news is that we’ve been forgiven, clothed in the righteousness of Christ and isn’t angry at us. And as a great father, he wants to develop us. And what helps us grow is not his anger, but his grace.

Steve Brown:
Absolutely.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s what helps us grow up.

Steve Brown:
And I, but you know, and I was kidding our listener who called and I’m not putting you down, you know, we get that question a lot. And it is a disconnect if you haven’t heard that before. You start thinking, oh, I wish that were true. Well, if you are a believer, it is true. And it changes not just little things, it changes everything. You’re free, you’re loved, and that’ll never change. You’re forgiven. Forgiven of it all.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. What a blessing.

Steve Brown:
Oh man. It makes me, almost speaking tongues. But I am a Presbyterian and I don’t do that sort of thing. It’s not decent and in order.

Pete Alwinson:
We’re going to get some letters about that, but please don’t. We’re just having fun with that.

Steve Brown:
Guys, thanks for joining us. We love having you along for these broadcasts. And one other thing before we leave. Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.